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Dr Rogers (UK)- FUT 1900 GRAFTS - DAY 1 - 7

J

johnboy2011

Valued member
I am in my 40's - I have experienced gradual loss over the last 7 years but more noticeable in the past two. Constantly worrying about the receding hairline and not happy with the way I have begun to look. I definitely do not suit going bald as my hair is very thick at the back/sides and very thin at the front and temples - started to look like Max Wall after about 4 weeks after a hair cut.

I decided to go for it and responded to the Vinci Clinic website via a google search. I met with Paul Oliver its consultant in my local town - afterwards felt very positive but was still unsure. I couldn't be sure they were any good as couldn't find much about them on the net. I really didn't want to travel abroad so I considered Farjo but they couldn't fit me in for a consultation for a few weeks.

I deliberated for ages and did a lot of research on all the main surgeons in the Uk. The ones who have done famous people who have appeared in the press - ie james nesbit, rooney etc but after reading many HT reviews on forums such as this one I decided against it. Apart from Farjo they all seemed to recommend non uk surgeons which i found odd.

I asked Vinci (Paul Oliver) who their Doctor in London would be and he recommended Dr Rogers. I checked out some reviews on him - two of which were pretty damning to say the least but one was from a daily mail reporter back in 2007 and that was very positive plus a most recent one (danielle).

I continued to look at lots of forums/Dr Reviews - I also got in touch which Spex - the only advice he offered was to go abroad as uk docs are rubbish generally but he did say Farjo is probably the only one of any note in the UK. He couldn't really comment on Dr Rogers which I found very strange considering Spex is an expert in the HT field. Dr Rogers had performed over 4000 procedures so how could he not know much about him. This raised my suspicions that a lot of these so called experts and forum addicts/advisers are in fact representing a few select Doctors.

I decided to go with my logical head that if Dr Rogers had performed 4000 ops and they were then it would be all over the net. I have to say that whilst i recognise the forums are here to inform, many of them actually put people off from going ahead. Its the old HT''s pre 90's, 80's and 70's which went wrong that people keep bringing up.

I decided to see one other clinic before choosing Dr Roger and so booked a consultation with Ziering after reading about Jason from Dancing with Ice judge's experience. Unfortunately, they cancelled on the morning of the day citing flight issues with their consultant. I was not happy I would say. Interestingly they quoted me £6500 for a 2000 graft FUT - this was £1750 more than Vinci.

So, I decided to go for it and booked myself in for a FUT with Dr Rogers via the Vinci Clinic. Dr Rogers also has his own clinic in Harley Street which is where I got it done a week ago,

The clinic was going through a refurb but that didn't put me off. I was put at ease explained everything by one of his assistants before I met Dr Rogers for the pre op consultation. I much of asked a 100 questions but he answered them all and didn't felt rushed by him to get on with it.

I paid Vinci £4750 for 2000 grafts. He said for the area of coverage I was looking for he reckoned he could get close to that. I asked about density and he said he would aim for 50 pcm sq. But it would depend on the donor area.

After the chat I put on a robe and went in the surgery room where I met his team. I think there were 7 in total. All very pleasant - mixture of nationalities. What struck me was the team seemed established - the team were the ones to dissect the donor hair and then implant in the new area.

Dr Rogers went about numbing the donor area - some of the injections were a little painful but not as painful as an injection at the dentists. What i did find surprising was the left side far more sensitive than the right side.

I put on my headphones whilst he went to work on extracting the donor hair and stitching up. I couldn't feel a thing.

After a lunch break - cheese sandwich supplied he went to work on numbing up the recipient area. Again a little uncomfortable on the left side but the right side was no problems at all. After a short wait for the anaesthetic to kick in he went about making the incisions. I chose to listen to music rather than watch a dvd that was offered.

Whilst he was doing this the team were busy separating the hairs from the donor site into groups of 1, 2 and 3 hairs. After another while he finished his work and showed me the area - by this time it was extremely red looking but looked like a good hairline and coverage.

The girls soon finished their work and i was told the estimate was c1900 grafts mainly 2 and 3 hairs. They all seemed pleased and so was I. All going well.

I actually thought for a moment about what i had done, going through with this, I was pleased with my can do attitude rather than just wimp out.

The girls then went to work, taking it in turns for shorts spells at a time due to the deep concentration needed. I was very pleased with this approach as this clearly is the most important part. What they could do could make or break the success of the HT.

My head felt very heavy lying back and both areas being numbed up made it feel like i was wearing a very tight cap.

After what seemed about 50 tracks later and a few visits by Dr Roger they were done. Dr Rogers explained he manage to achieve 70 pcm of density which was very very good. I was very pleased by this news. He left the room and one of the assistants explained all the post op stuff about shampoo, oil, saline for cleaning and what to expect over the next fews days and weeks. The do's and don'ts etc.

I didn't see Dr Rogers again at this point as he was in another consultation which was a pity as i wanted to shake his hand and thank him for his care and the experience.

I was all done in 7 hours - 10 am to 5pm.

When I got home i was shocked at the work and noticed a lot of thinning looking hair that wasn't there before. I reassured myself this would be normal as clearly he would need to make incisions behind my original hairline to allow the HT to blend in and work with an further loss I might experience in the future.

I noticed also that the hairline seemed a little lower than what i wanted - I spoke with Paul the next day about it and he said the redness would create the impression the line to be lower but once the redness went combined with the single hair that they put at the front it would not create such as solid line as low as it would look just after the op. I hoped he was right because over the next couple of days i wondered how i would keep my secret safe from my friends and work colleagues which such a strong line below my existing one.

The donor area was sore for a couple of nights - I had difficulty sleeping but nothing too bad. My partner commented on what a great stitch it was and how it was impossible to notice even after one day. This has pleased me immensely.

I have religiously followed the post op advice. Cleaning the area, not letting the skip cap be too tight and shampooing and applying oil as directed.

I have also been taking arnica as I have found this to work for bruising and recovery from a previous operation i had on a knee and nose.

A week has now passed and all has been great with my recovery. I noticed within 4 days a significant improvement, scabs started to drop off, redness starting to disappear. On day five I started to go outside without my skip cap and on day six played my first round of golf. By day six all scabs had fallen off and donor site soreness stopped. I have experience no tightness at all from day one which was most surprising.

You can see from the pics how pleasing the results are after only one week. The hair to my surprise has also grown, my partner and I can't believe how much it has grown. You can see from the pics how much it has and soft it looks.

I've got a week of my holidays before i go back to work so I am feeling more confident with each day that my secret will be kept safe.

I'll put up more pics in 4 weeks and hopefully I wont have experienced any shedding or shock loss by them.

The last thing i would say is that I could not recommend Dr Rogers more highly. My experience so far has been fantastic - for those thinking about getting this done then there is no need to go to USA or Belgium. Dr Rogers or Farjo clearly are as good as the best elsewhere.

Photo's on profile.
 
J

johnboy2011

Valued member
Here are my pictures.

1 day post op.

1243_111026_310000000.jpg




Donor area 1 day post op

1243_111029_570000000.jpg





4 days post op

1243_111026_310000001.jpg





7 days post op, hair pulled back

1243_111026_320000003.jpg





7 days post op hair forward.

1243_111026_320000002.jpg





7 days post op under bright light.

1243_111026_320000004.jpg





 
P

Pacman

Valued member
Having read your introduction i must say you have scared me shitless!

Your research is unbelievably thin and sketchy and half way down my alarm bell that was going off in my head broke!

I realise you are trying to be a good advocate for UK clinics and i myself have often pondered why many others on here opt to advise guys to steer clear of the UK set up.

Having read your introduction i now realise there is no alterior motive from the people who canvas for others to steer clear just good honest information with your best interests at heart. Your post has taught me two things

1. You done no research.

2. Steer clear of Uk clinics dont let travel be an obstacle.

It is hard to determine the amount of grafts you say you received giving the angle of the picture and your native hair.

That been said and at the risk of sounding hypcritical the placement looks excellent and i hope you continue to update your progress and i do hope you have a fantastic result. I for one look forward to following your progress.


 
Bigmac

Bigmac

Administrator
Staff member
Thanks for sharing your story and pictures. Have you any pictures taken by the clinic, also do you have the graft breakdown.

The work looks very nice.
 
Sparky

Sparky

Valued member
Looking on the 4 days post op pic makes it very clear that it's not 70 pr sq cm. 70 would be very unusual for a one off HT.
 
J

johnboy2011

Valued member
I have recieved an email from Dr Rogers saying I reported the density incorrectly. His email is as follows -

Just to add that the density was estimated at 62 (not 70) and that is from the area (15cm sq x 2)/1900 grafts. It will be approximate but pretty close. Also, within the area the density is not uniform - hairline is singles, close together but also randomised, 2s and 3s more regular but not as close as singles.


So, my mistake. When I was in the room I thought I heard him say 70 but what I now recall is that 70 was an aspirational target - the reality was 62. So, am I complaining about 62 - erm certainly not.

Its now well into my 3rd week now. Its still all looking good albeit a small amount of shedding - not much but a little. Its blending in very nicely which is good. Obviosuly, still to early to tell hows its all going to turn but the next 2 months things should be a lot clearer.


 
J

johnboy2011

Valued member
Bigmac wrote:
Thanks for sharing your story and pictures. Have you any pictures taken by the clinic, also do you have the graft breakdown.

The work looks very nice.
I'll ask Dr Rogers as I dont have any from him.
 
J

johnboy2011

Valued member
Pacman wrote:
Having read your introduction i must say you have scared me shitless!

Your research is unbelievably thin and sketchy and half way down my alarm bell that was going off in my head broke!

I realise you are trying to be a good advocate for UK clinics and i myself have often pondered why many others on here opt to advise guys to steer clear of the UK set up.

Having read your introduction i now realise there is no alterior motive from the people who canvas for others to steer clear just good honest information with your best interests at heart. Your post has taught me two things

1. You done no research.

2. Steer clear of Uk clinics dont let travel be an obstacle.

It is hard to determine the amount of grafts you say you received giving the angle of the picture and your native hair.

That been said and at the risk of sounding hypcritical the placement looks excellent and i hope you continue to update your progress and i do hope you have a fantastic result. I for one look forward to following your progress.


Pacman,

Your reply is the type of posting which contributes to the uncertainty and fear of going through with an HT, specifically using UK clinics.

How can you say my research was sketchy. I read over 100's of postings and joined a number of forums. I have spent many hours investigating and reading before I went through with the procedure. How can you make a posting to declare I did no research - are you a mind reader?

Secondly, how can you go on to this site and advise people to steer clear of UK clinics. Where is your evidence to support your claims. There are many 1000's of HT's performed in the UK each year. Do you know the percentage of HT's that have failed to support your advice?

I only know of many many successfuly procedures - look at the famous people who have had them carried out in Britain/Ireland such as rooney, nesbit, brydon et al. Granted there are a couple of examples of proceedures that have turned out not to achieve the expectations of the patient but this is also the case of esteemed clinics such as the Feller and Ziering. Incidently, Ziering is a renowned clinic in US with a very good reputation are you suggesting that people should steer clear of their business in the UK?

I don't want to get into any argument with you but I do think you should stop making wild statments without providing the facts. I have posted my experience, that is all. I am not saying don't go abroad I was merely saying that people should not be put off from going to UK clinics such as Dr Rogers because from my experience and through the evidence I have provided they should not be discounted.

If I was going to provide a tip through my exprience it would be to understand the experience and size of the team working for the surgeon. They are the ones that are doing the planting - clearly this is a delicate procedure and the success of the graft holding is down to them. This is not really mentioned in any of the forums.

I'll post pics in the next few weeks. So far, all is still pretty good. Just had my first hair cut - my hair dresser was astonished and commented how good it all looks including the scar which is reducing as the days go by.

I have had a little bit of shedding which seems to have stopped after 3 days. Not much but just little and luckily its helped take the sharpness out of my new hairline so its blending in nicely so not to be detected.

I'll keep you posted.
 
Sparky

Sparky

Valued member
I assume Dr Rogers is talking hairs pr sq cm and not grafts, even at 62 grafts pr sq cm, you wouldn't see any gaps at all between the grafts ie: you wouldn't be able to see skin inbetween the grafts.
 
J

johnboy2011

Valued member
Sparky wrote:
I assume Dr Rogers is talking hairs pr sq cm and not grafts, even at 62 grafts pr sq cm, you wouldn't see any gaps at all between the grafts ie: you wouldn't be able to see skin inbetween the grafts.

From the measuring that was done - The length of each triangle/temple is approx 10cm and base height (each corner) is 3cm, so area is 1/2hxl i.e. 1.5cm x 10cm = 15cmsq each side. Of course, that is approximate which is why 62cmsq is approx.

Remember even in the donor area, there is still space to be seen between follicular units - else FUE wouldn't be possible!


And the point about follicular units (grafts) is that 2-3 hairs appear to come out of each "pore" so you still get one blob of scab, whether it's 1,2 or 3 hairs.
Fundamentally, I've got 1871 grafts divided by the number of square cms area. The pictures I have exaggerate the gaps as they magnify the image.

Anyway the point is does the hair density blend in with the existing hair and from what I see in the mirror under strong light it does that it - in fact its is more dense than existing - surely that is the result.

Also, you only need 6 x 4 grafts in a single cm with an average of 2.5 hairs per graft to achieve 62 hairs per cm. If it was based on hairs then along one line I would have a graft for every 2 millimeters - I can tell you quite clearly from looking at my hair density the hair is not spaced out with 2mm gaps.

I am not sure how you can sit and count up from a photo how many it is - whats the problem with accepting what I say - why the need to dissagree. Why not go and get me the example picture of grafts per cm, which has been verified, that you are using as a benchmark and share that with me so I can compare against my own head. Or are you just guessing when you question the numbers of grafts that I say Dr Roger achieved?

 
Sparky

Sparky

Valued member
Yes I know there is gaps in the donor, but there would be no visible skin at 62 grafts per sq cm due to the scabs. The pics don't look tightly packed at all.
 
Sparky

Sparky

Valued member
I'm not saying "there is definatly not 62 grafts pr sq cm" I'm saying it doesn't look like there are that many. I don't think it's the norm to plant at that density in one HT.
 
J

johnboy2011

Valued member
Sparky wrote:
I'm not saying "there is definatly not 62 grafts pr sq cm" I'm saying it doesn't look like there are that many. I don't think it's the norm to plant at that density in one HT.

What's the norm? Their isn't a norm surely because each patient is different, their hair type, current density and loss, density of donor area, amount of coverage etc.

Remember I was only a norwood II at the most.

Anyway, lets see how things develop over the next few months and then we will be in a better position to tell about the density. Quite a bit of shedding has now occured so hopefully I'm well on my way through this process.
 
P

Pacman

Valued member
johnboy2011 wrote:
Pacman wrote:
Having read your introduction i must say you have scared me shitless!

Your research is unbelievably thin and sketchy and half way down my alarm bell that was going off in my head broke!

I realise you are trying to be a good advocate for UK clinics and i myself have often pondered why many others on here opt to advise guys to steer clear of the UK set up.

Having read your introduction i now realise there is no alterior motive from the people who canvas for others to steer clear just good honest information with your best interests at heart. Your post has taught me two things

1. You done no research.

2. Steer clear of Uk clinics dont let travel be an obstacle.

It is hard to determine the amount of grafts you say you received giving the angle of the picture and your native hair.

That been said and at the risk of sounding hypcritical the placement looks excellent and i hope you continue to update your progress and i do hope you have a fantastic result. I for one look forward to following your progress.


Pacman,

Your reply is the type of posting which contributes to the uncertainty and fear of going through with an HT, specifically using UK clinics.

How can you say my research was sketchy. I read over 100's of postings and joined a number of forums. I have spent many hours investigating and reading before I went through with the procedure. How can you make a posting to declare I did no research - are you a mind reader?

Secondly, how can you go on to this site and advise people to steer clear of UK clinics. Where is your evidence to support your claims. There are many 1000's of HT's performed in the UK each year. Do you know the percentage of HT's that have failed to support your advice?

I only know of many many successfuly procedures - look at the famous people who have had them carried out in Britain/Ireland such as rooney, nesbit, brydon et al. Granted there are a couple of examples of proceedures that have turned out not to achieve the expectations of the patient but this is also the case of esteemed clinics such as the Feller and Ziering. Incidently, Ziering is a renowned clinic in US with a very good reputation are you suggesting that people should steer clear of their business in the UK?

I don't want to get into any argument with you but I do think you should stop making wild statments without providing the facts. I have posted my experience, that is all. I am not saying don't go abroad I was merely saying that people should not be put off from going to UK clinics such as Dr Rogers because from my experience and through the evidence I have provided they should not be discounted.

If I was going to provide a tip through my exprience it would be to understand the experience and size of the team working for the surgeon. They are the ones that are doing the planting - clearly this is a delicate procedure and the success of the graft holding is down to them. This is not really mentioned in any of the forums.

I'll post pics in the next few weeks. So far, all is still pretty good. Just had my first hair cut - my hair dresser was astonished and commented how good it all looks including the scar which is reducing as the days go by.

I have had a little bit of shedding which seems to have stopped after 3 days. Not much but just little and luckily its helped take the sharpness out of my new hairline so its blending in nicely so not to be detected.

I'll keep you posted.

Hi Johnboy

Firstly let me state that i have no axe to grind and wish you the best with your surgery and do hope you have a fantastic result. I will be following your progress as it is through guys like yourself that opinions of UK clinics will change if above all results can be achieved.

Let me explain why you scared me shitless and why your original post left me feeling your research was very flimsy

Farjo ruled out because you couldnt wait a few weeks!! Poor judgement to say the least

Dismissing as "odd" the advice and reviews of experienced posters and booking with a clinic who by your own admission you could find little Information about is alarming

From your original post it's quite clear you ruled out the consideration of any clinic outside the UK and i think had you done your research and listened to even the most basic advice you should not have left travel be an issue. You should as a marker at least have had an online consultation even if to use as a guideline with other clinics

I think to base your research on celebs rather than try to seek out the ordinary Joe soap is a mistake.

The only other UK clinic you gave serious thought to left you down the very morning of your consultation because some guy failed to turn up! This screams exactly the type of unproffesionalism that people warn us about. You then go as far as to defend them in your post above?? You had 1st hand experience of been shafted by them and your asking me am i suggesting people should stay clear? '''h;h;;h What do you think? Why didnt you go back?

From the outside looking in it seems that you booked your HT with an agent of sorts with very little research on the doc in question or his team? Although you mentioned he has amassed over 4000 surgeries your search produced 3 reviews 2 which by your words were pretty damning thats a 66% fail rate based on that research!

It also seems from your original post that you never had a consultation with Dr Rodgers.

Getting a HT in the middle of a refurb! Sounds like a budget holiday to a half built hotel. Little consolation afterwards if you got an infection.

I know it's small and petty but the fact you mention the doc never even said goodbye tells me he has your best interests at heart....

I have been researching myself for a year and half and would consider myself extremely green and vastly inexperienced but i have learned to listen to the alarm bells and i just have the feel from your post that you jumped in the chair fairly swiftly which just goes against my ethic of research research reasearch.

The UK clinics i have consulted with have been very pushy trying to capture the sale and have been very poor to provide me with answers to my long term goals. I have dozens of unanswered emails with regards to the procedure yet receive regular calls and texts outlining up coming available dates in which they can fit me in for surgery!

However with Clinics outside of the UK that i haved consulted with the process is long and drawn out but careful and with your best interest at heart. The sale comes a very distant 2nd. Had you not discarded that advice as "odd" you may now be in a position to challenge me on this!

Regards,

Pacman
 
J

johnboy2011

Valued member
Pacman wrote:
johnboy2011 wrote:
Pacman wrote:
Having read your introduction i must say you have scared me shitless!

Your research is unbelievably thin and sketchy and half way down my alarm bell that was going off in my head broke!

I realise you are trying to be a good advocate for UK clinics and i myself have often pondered why many others on here opt to advise guys to steer clear of the UK set up.

Having read your introduction i now realise there is no alterior motive from the people who canvas for others to steer clear just good honest information with your best interests at heart. Your post has taught me two things

1. You done no research.

2. Steer clear of Uk clinics dont let travel be an obstacle.

It is hard to determine the amount of grafts you say you received giving the angle of the picture and your native hair.

That been said and at the risk of sounding hypcritical the placement looks excellent and i hope you continue to update your progress and i do hope you have a fantastic result. I for one look forward to following your progress.


Pacman,

Your reply is the type of posting which contributes to the uncertainty and fear of going through with an HT, specifically using UK clinics.

How can you say my research was sketchy. I read over 100's of postings and joined a number of forums. I have spent many hours investigating and reading before I went through with the procedure. How can you make a posting to declare I did no research - are you a mind reader?

Secondly, how can you go on to this site and advise people to steer clear of UK clinics. Where is your evidence to support your claims. There are many 1000's of HT's performed in the UK each year. Do you know the percentage of HT's that have failed to support your advice?

I only know of many many successfuly procedures - look at the famous people who have had them carried out in Britain/Ireland such as rooney, nesbit, brydon et al. Granted there are a couple of examples of proceedures that have turned out not to achieve the expectations of the patient but this is also the case of esteemed clinics such as the Feller and Ziering. Incidently, Ziering is a renowned clinic in US with a very good reputation are you suggesting that people should steer clear of their business in the UK?

I don't want to get into any argument with you but I do think you should stop making wild statments without providing the facts. I have posted my experience, that is all. I am not saying don't go abroad I was merely saying that people should not be put off from going to UK clinics such as Dr Rogers because from my experience and through the evidence I have provided they should not be discounted.

If I was going to provide a tip through my exprience it would be to understand the experience and size of the team working for the surgeon. They are the ones that are doing the planting - clearly this is a delicate procedure and the success of the graft holding is down to them. This is not really mentioned in any of the forums.

I'll post pics in the next few weeks. So far, all is still pretty good. Just had my first hair cut - my hair dresser was astonished and commented how good it all looks including the scar which is reducing as the days go by.

I have had a little bit of shedding which seems to have stopped after 3 days. Not much but just little and luckily its helped take the sharpness out of my new hairline so its blending in nicely so not to be detected.

I'll keep you posted.

Hi Johnboy

Firstly let me state that i have no axe to grind and wish you the best with your surgery and do hope you have a fantastic result. I will be following your progress as it is through guys like yourself that opinions of UK clinics will change if above all results can be achieved.

Let me explain why you scared me shitless and why your original post left me feeling your research was very flimsy

Farjo ruled out because you couldnt wait a few weeks!! Poor judgement to say the least

Dismissing as "odd" the advice and reviews of experienced posters and booking with a clinic who by your own admission you could find little Information about is alarming

From your original post it's quite clear you ruled out the consideration of any clinic outside the UK and i think had you done your research and listened to even the most basic advice you should not have left travel be an issue. You should as a marker at least have had an online consultation even if to use as a guideline with other clinics

I think to base your research on celebs rather than try to seek out the ordinary Joe soap is a mistake.

The only other UK clinic you gave serious thought to left you down the very morning of your consultation because some guy failed to turn up! This screams exactly the type of unproffesionalism that people warn us about. You then go as far as to defend them in your post above?? You had 1st hand experience of been shafted by them and your asking me am i suggesting people should stay clear? '''h;h;;h What do you think? Why didnt you go back?

From the outside looking in it seems that you booked your HT with an agent of sorts with very little research on the doc in question or his team? Although you mentioned he has amassed over 4000 surgeries your search produced 3 reviews 2 which by your words were pretty damning thats a 66% fail rate based on that research!

It also seems from your original post that you never had a consultation with Dr Rodgers.

Getting a HT in the middle of a refurb! Sounds like a budget holiday to a half built hotel. Little consolation afterwards if you got an infection.

I know it's small and petty but the fact you mention the doc never even said goodbye tells me he has your best interests at heart....

I have been researching myself for a year and half and would consider myself extremely green and vastly inexperienced but i have learned to listen to the alarm bells and i just have the feel from your post that you jumped in the chair fairly swiftly which just goes against my ethic of research research reasearch.

The UK clinics i have consulted with have been very pushy trying to capture the sale and have been very poor to provide me with answers to my long term goals. I have dozens of unanswered emails with regards to the procedure yet receive regular calls and texts outlining up coming available dates in which they can fit me in for surgery!

However with Clinics outside of the UK that i haved consulted with the process is long and drawn out but careful and with your best interest at heart. The sale comes a very distant 2nd. Had you not discarded that advice as "odd" you may now be in a position to challenge me on this!

Regards,

Pacman

Hi Pacman

You continue to talk for me in my approach - what i did or what i didn't do. I did say I carried out extensive research. There are only so many reviews one can read - the process of HT is very simple to understand. I completely understood the process and the risks before I went ahead. I didn't chose some back street surgeon from the UK that no one has ever heard of. As per the clinic - it was less important as they were not carrying out the procedure. The only thing that I considered when dealing with them was the contractual terms and payment details. After a couple of tweaks and discussions I arrived at a set of terms that I was satisfied with. I didn;t go into this detail in my story because I thought it was long enough.

Firstly, I understood from my consultation and from the research that I had done that I was ready for an HT. I considered FUE vs FUT, meds, my age, my family history, rate of loss, risks and future goals.

The part that was the most important to me was the choice of surgeon. Once you read and talk to people its easy to work out who the main players are with the experience and track record.

You say research, research and research. Tell me something how much research can you do before its time to either go for it or not. I narrowed the research of Dr's down to the main players. We all know who they are, farjo's, fellers, shapiro's, zeirings, rogers etc. Once I narrowed this lot down I looked at all the postings relating to them and to be quite honest they all had good ones and also some bad ones. Some are more into self pr than others so clearly have a greater concentration of material on the net. PACMAN - do you know the big difference between all of the main players? There is no difference! They all have reputable clinics, all carryout their procedures using latest techniques, all have excellent case studies and all have been leading in this field for a minimum of 12 years.

To say I did NO research and to say I jumped into the chair without much thought is absolutely wrong. I chose not to go to the states or abroad because the surgeons I quoted above did not appear to offer any advantage to either DR Rogers, Farjos or the UK Ziering clinic. There are bad clinics in the US, Begium, Dubai or anywhere else in the world not just the UK. The point I was making is that it is wrong that some people on these forum completely dismiss all UK surgeons apart from Farjo. They make them out to be butchers as though they are completely incompetent.

I was pointing out that from my experience so far with DR Rogers there is no need to dismiss them so easily. Look at the number of unhappy customers of US clinics - even the renowned clinics have got some bad reviews. The reason is that people heal differently and that all procedures regardless of what they are not guarenteed to work. Some of those they don't work will invariably appear on these sites.

Get your facts right and stop talking for me as though you know what I did or didn't do. ))N_):)

PS - have you had a HT? If so, who did it and can we look at your pics please. I would like to know how you are so much of an expert and why you are anti UK surgeons, even the UK Ziering clinic which has a reknowed reputation - just ask Jason from Dancing on Ice. By the way just because the Ziering consultant didnt turn up for my appointment it doesn't mean they are a poor at performing HT's.
 
P

Pacman

Valued member
Hi Johnboy

I have not quoted facts anywhere? I have just merely questioned your approach.

You asked me how much research is needed before you go for it or not?

My honest answer is when you know enough to determine how ridiculous this comment is "As per the clinic - it was less important as they were not carrying out the procedure. The only thing that I considered when dealing with them was the contractual terms and payment details. After a couple of tweaks and discussions I arrived at a set of terms that I was satisfied with" I mean seriously WTF!

I do not believe that things are as simple as you allude to with regards the HT business. I do not believe all are equal like your assumptions. Some have world class standards others unfortunately do not. Research is key thats my view. You come across as dismissive rushed and careless in your original post that is just my opinion.

I have never said that the Ziering clinic are poor at HT? i think you are the one who needs to check there facts. I just think it is downright disrespectful and unproffesional to cancel on you like they did but hey keep flying there flag you can always point to the result that Jason Gardiner achieved after all the same marquee doc that was employed to do his head would have surely done yours too !!!!!

How can you state that clinics that you looked into in the US and Belgium could offer no advantage over a clinic who's consultant couldnt be arsed to turn up??

I have suggested steer clear of the UK purely because your post seems flimsy and irresponsible exactly like the many stories available on here that ended in disaster and clinics are still waiting to pounce on the mis informed! As a matter of fact by your own admission it was explained to you that you had achieved 70 per sq cm of density until you were informed otherwise on here. This is the kinda shite that stinks and drags down the integrity and creates the lack of trust. I know you back tracked but this is what you were made to believe originally. By the way what was your graft breakdown?

If you read my post properly you will understand that i have not had a ht and have quite clearly pointed out that my knowledge is limited and i consider myself to be a novice however i am researching and this site has helped me immensely in making an informed decision when the time comes.

I hope in time your result speaks volumes and regardless of my opinion you will be very happy with the outcome. However i would not adopt your carefree attitude.

All the best

Pacman
 
Sparky

Sparky

Valued member
The reason Pacman is saying some of these things is that we have seen some much crap surgery in the UK it's hard to trust anyone.

FYI, Rogers didn't do a good job on me, I had to go to Brussels to have the grafts removed, and the scar grafted, via fue.
I wouldn't consider Zeiring to be a great surgeon either, he's ok. Any clinic that tout's their celeb patients should be avoided imo.
Out of the 4 Dr's that operated on me in the UK, Rogers was the best one.

I've had 4 un-needed HT's in the UK, why 4? because none of them gave me any density, so I kept going back to get what I should of got in 1 HT, even after 4, the density was bad.

I don't understand why people don't want to travel abroad, remember an HT is forever and ever, and it's not a big deal to take some time to travel, as you get no second chances, none. Travelling to Brussels is just as easy as travelling to the UK based clinics being mentioned.

You are right in saying that there are bad clinics elsewhere in the world, but in my opinion, the only clinic in the UK that I trust is Farjo, that's my opinion and I'm entitled to that having had very bad surgery in the UK. I've spent a lot of time very depressed about what UK Dr's did to me, and ended up in therapy and on anti depressants as well.

All this being said, I'm sure your result will be fine, I doubt it will be the only HT you will get though.
 
J

johnboy2011

Valued member
Pacman wrote:
Hi Johnboy

I have not quoted facts anywhere? I have just merely questioned your approach.

You asked me how much research is needed before you go for it or not?

My honest answer is when you know enough to determine how ridiculous this comment is "As per the clinic - it was less important as they were not carrying out the procedure. The only thing that I considered when dealing with them was the contractual terms and payment details. After a couple of tweaks and discussions I arrived at a set of terms that I was satisfied with" I mean seriously WTF!

I do not believe that things are as simple as you allude to with regards the HT business. I do not believe all are equal like your assumptions. Some have world class standards others unfortunately do not. Research is key thats my view. You come across as dismissive rushed and careless in your original post that is just my opinion.

I have never said that the Ziering clinic are poor at HT? i think you are the one who needs to check there facts. I just think it is downright disrespectful and unproffesional to cancel on you like they did but hey keep flying there flag you can always point to the result that Jason Gardiner achieved after all the same marquee doc that was employed to do his head would have surely done yours too !!!!!

How can you state that clinics that you looked into in the US and Belgium could offer no advantage over a clinic who's consultant couldnt be arsed to turn up??

I have suggested steer clear of the UK purely because your post seems flimsy and irresponsible exactly like the many stories available on here that ended in disaster and clinics are still waiting to pounce on the mis informed! As a matter of fact by your own admission it was explained to you that you had achieved 70 per sq cm of density until you were informed otherwise on here. This is the kinda shite that stinks and drags down the integrity and creates the lack of trust. I know you back tracked but this is what you were made to believe originally. By the way what was your graft breakdown?

If you read my post properly you will understand that i have not had a ht and have quite clearly pointed out that my knowledge is limited and i consider myself to be a novice however i am researching and this site has helped me immensely in making an informed decision when the time comes.

I hope in time your result speaks volumes and regardless of my opinion you will be very happy with the outcome. However i would not adopt your carefree attitude.

All the best

Pacman
Pacman,

Again and again you keep talking for me. Anyway, the clinic was less important because they weren €™t carrying out the procedure. Rather than say I mean seriously WTF? Explain to me why Vinci was so important when they were not carrying out the procedure. They don €™t have a clinic in the UK so for their UK customers they outsource to a partner clinic ie Dr Rogers at the Westminster clinic in Harley Street. Surely, its more important to check on the clinic they are using is it not?

The problem I have with you is that you make statements which appear driven by some personal aim - clearly because as you say you haven't had a HT. How can you comment at all if you've never even gone through the process. You're like a back seat driver.

The sort of silly statements you make is like the one referring to the clinic as a budget holiday hotel because of refurb that was going on - you then go on to imply there must have been potential issues of infection because of that. This is the dangerous crap that comes from people like you when it comes to addressing UK clinics. I take it you've never been to a hospital that is going through a refit? Just because work is being carried out on a building and public areas it doesn't mean the procedure room is dirty and unfit. Let me tell you because I know you like to tell me how it was even though you weren't there that the clinic room was spotless and as clean if not cleaner than any hospital room I have ever been in.

Also, you say I was corrected on the grafts by this site. Of course you know that because you can read my mind. Let me correct you - it was Dr Rogers that spotted my email and sent me a private one with the correction. You can see how I worded it that it must have come from someone else.

I think you should stop getting involved in these HT's forums and keep your opinions to yourself until you have gone through this process. I see you've been a member for 17 months now - still doing your research no doubt but clearly with your 40 odd posts you must be an expert.

Pacman the game ended up being annoying after playing it for a while.

If you are a genuine potential HT patient then go and get your hair done and stop procrastinating. Firstly go and see a Dr first as you seem to be suffering from the procrastination disease called paralysesness of the analysesness.
This string of emails with you just demonstrates my point of the underlying anti UK clinic bashing going which stirs up more anxiety for people looking to get it carried out locally. By carrying on with your retorts you have been found out as someone with no actual experience to even comment. So, anyone else reading this thread pay no attention to what PACMAN ever says - he is unqualified to comment.
 
Sparky

Sparky

Valued member
I did understand the part that it was Dr Rogers that spotted the mistake and contacted you to tell you the actual grafts pr sq cm, didn't get the impression that he had lied to you at all.
 
J

johnboy2011

Valued member
Sparky wrote:
The reason Pacman is saying some of these things is that we have seen some much crap surgery in the UK it's hard to trust anyone.

FYI, Rogers didn't do a good job on me, I had to go to Brussels to have the grafts removed, and the scar grafted, via fue.
I wouldn't consider Zeiring to be a great surgeon either, he's ok. Any clinic that tout's their celeb patients should be avoided imo.
Out of the 4 Dr's that operated on me in the UK, Rogers was the best one.

I've had 4 un-needed HT's in the UK, why 4? because none of them gave me any density, so I kept going back to get what I should of got in 1 HT, even after 4, the density was bad.

I don't understand why people don't want to travel abroad, remember an HT is forever and ever, and it's not a big deal to take some time to travel, as you get no second chances, none. Travelling to Brussels is just as easy as travelling to the UK based clinics being mentioned.

You are right in saying that there are bad clinics elsewhere in the world, but in my opinion, the only clinic in the UK that I trust is Farjo, that's my opinion and I'm entitled to that having had very bad surgery in the UK. I've spent a lot of time very depressed about what UK Dr's did to me, and ended up in therapy and on anti depressants as well.

All this being said, I'm sure your result will be fine, I doubt it will be the only HT you will get though.
Hi Sparky,

I can't comment on the reasons why your's didnt work out with Dr R and why you didnt get the density. But the point i was trying to make to Pacman is that there are a few select surgeons that clearly are reputable and enough of them in the UK not to have to travel.

I think its impossbile to tell who is the best for all types of HT's and patients alike. There can't be a standard that is so much higher than that of the most reputable surgeons. The differences can't be so great for the need to travel. If Dr R has carried out over 4000 procedures i guess there will be a small minority such as yourself where it didnt work out. Its probably the same % fail that most top surgeons have because from what I've read on the forums they've all had bad results at some point. The other point I was trying to make is that given the fact that Dr R has done over 4000 surely if he was a bad surgeon there would be a great number of disgruntled posts on these forum. Bad news travels much faster than good.

I think each person is different to how they take to surgery and how the grafts hold themselves. I don't know whether even my own HT will work out exactly how I want it - alot of its success will be down to how my body copes and what I have done post op. How I look after myself in the next few months etc. I certainly wont be blaming Dr Rogers because so far the experience and the quality of the work that has been done on my is of a high standard. I've had a number of different people inspect the area under magnifying glass and they've all said - its look really clean, the hair is dense, well positioned etc. The scar has healed brilliantly - i didnt even need to get my stiches taken out - they dissolved naturally. I've had no tightness and the post op care has been great. I've had lots of emails between me and the clinic and the Dr.
The day itself was a breeze and the team was great. I had 100% of their attention on me throughout the whole day. They were working as hard as they probably could but they also took plenty of rests so they were focused. This is why I say they were professional and exuded competence in their field. I did say to pacman that one area that is never mentioned in these forums is the team of technicians. The Dr is only half the story and if I was going to advise anyone about something that I did miss in my research it would be to investigate the quality and size of the team.

I dont see anything wrong with touting celeb patients - all the top clinics self promote and use testimonials to establish credibilty. The job that was done on jason clearly is no fluke and what a great job. So, whats wrong with putting that clinic in the bracket of top clinics. Again this was my point to PACMAN.

He seems to be an expert and no doubt people think he might well be so therefore will follow his advise. They should listen to people who have gone through this process with the good and the bad stuff so they can make an informed decision - just like I did.
 
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