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Density v. Donor Conservation

N

NorfUK

member
Thanks all for your contributions here which have been a massive help researching my HT. I have been at Norwood II for many years but more recently began thinning at the crown. I am looking for a HT to fix my hairline now but leave a good donor stock for future use. Looking at so many before and after shots, I have noticed the average number of grafts used, for say a Norwood II case like mine, seems to vary massively from one practitioner to another.

As an example, Dr De Reys (Belgium) seems to have some great results but seems to generally use a smaller number of grafts (presumably with less density). On the other hand Dr Demirsoy (Turkey) has also produced some fantastic hairlines but his online examples show graft counts way higher for Norwood II cases. The same seems to be true of Dr Erdogan's (Turkey) clinic ASMED although he seems to be attempting to use technology to determine this which is exciting.

Currently all of this is pushing me in the direction of doctors in Belgium like Dr De Reys who seem to use less grafts. However, despite a lot of bashing online, I do think some Turkish clinics' results speak for themselves and I like that they've have invested massively in their facilities and training, so I don't want to rule them out even if technicians are heavily involved. You find technicians are heavily involved in many top European clinics too, when you dig a little into the detail.

Saying that, I do note that Belgium/some top European doctors tend to prefer manual punches and forceps to implant. Given that and that they often do this work themselves, perhaps they are naturally more conservative with the donor area as they are limited in how much they can take on in one session? Based on family history, I reckon I won't thin diffusely but eventually reach Norwood III vertex or even IV. If you were me, would you try and save donors at the cost of density? Or just let the doc worry about all that and pick your HT clinic based on cost, write-ups and results?
 
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B

Baldingman23

Valued member
I was 90% going to go with Dr De Reys for my HT as research led me on that root. It was only due to lockdown and the great results that Dr Arshad was proving to get on this forum that I decided to go with him. If I’m correct he used to be the head surgeon at The Pro Hair clinic
 
N

NorfUK

member
That’s great. This forum has lots of reviews of Dr Arshad but all in the last year, I can’t find anything prior to 2019 anywhere. I like to see historic results. Same goes for Dr Tam. Perhaps they’re on marketing drives? I do like how Arshad arranges his results online by graft number. He does two patients a day, with his assistant doctor doing extractions. Seems fair. I’d put him in the less conservative category alongside the two Turkish doctors I’ve mentioned above based on graft numbers. De Reys does everything himself assisted by his wife.
 
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Baldingman23

Valued member
That’s great. This forum has lots of reviews of Dr Arshad but all in the last year, I can’t find anything prior to 2019 anywhere. I like to see historic results. Same goes for Dr Tam. Perhaps they’re on marketing drives? I do like how Arshad arranges his results online by graft number. He does two patients a day, with his assistant doctor doing extractions. Seems fair. I’d put him in the less conservative category alongside the two Turkish doctors I’ve mentioned above based on graft numbers. De Reys does everything himself assisted by his wife.
Yep De Reys will only do a Max of 3000 graphs over 2 days another reason why I went with Dr Arshad because I knew I need more to get the result I wanted. I don’t think you will go wrong if you pick Dr De Reys he has done some Stella work.
 
Bigmac

Bigmac

Administrator
Staff member
Thanks all for your contributions here which have been a massive help researching my HT. I have been at Norwood II for many years but more recently began thinning at the crown. I am looking for a HT to fix my hairline now but leave a good donor stock for future use. Looking at so many before and after shots, I have noticed the average number of grafts used, for say a Norwood II case like mine, seems to vary massively from one practitioner to another.

Each patient is different and will be assessed on donor availability, predicted future loss pattern. miniaturised hairs, age, expectations, hair loss stabilisation. Some clinics will plant at a higher density while others prefer a lower one. Usually, 40 - 50 grafts per cm2 is enough to produce a nice hairline.
Do you have a picture showing your hairline?
 
E

Edsarn

Member
Thanks all for your contributions here which have been a massive help researching my HT. I have been at Norwood II for many years but more recently began thinning at the crown. I am looking for a HT to fix my hairline now but leave a good donor stock for future use. Looking at so many before and after shots, I have noticed the average number of grafts used, for say a Norwood II case like mine, seems to vary massively from one practitioner to another.

As an example, Dr De Reys (Belgium) seems to have some great results but seems to generally use a smaller number of grafts (presumably with less density). On the other hand Dr Demirsoy (Turkey) has also produced some fantastic hairlines but his online examples show graft counts way higher for Norwood II cases. The same seems to be true of Dr Erdogan's (Turkey) clinic ASMED although he seems to be attempting to use technology to determine this which is exciting.

Currently all of this is pushing me in the direction of doctors in Belgium like Dr De Reys who seem to use less grafts. However, despite a lot of bashing online, I do think some Turkish clinics' results speak for themselves and I like that they've have invested massively in their facilities and training, so I don't want to rule them out even if technicians are heavily involved. You find technicians are heavily involved in many top European clinics too, when you dig a little into the detail.

Saying that, I do note that Belgium/some top European doctors tend to prefer manual punches and forceps to implant. Given that and that they often do this work themselves, perhaps they are naturally more conservative with the donor area as they are limited in how much they can take on in one session? Based on family history, I reckon I won't thin diffusely but eventually reach Norwood III vertex or even IV. If you were me, would you try and save donors at the cost of density? Or just let the doc worry about all that and pick your HT clinic based on cost, write-ups and results?
Hi NorfUK, I've had surgeries with both Dr De Reys and Dr Arshad. Both doctors are very ethical and will look after you well. I had my first 2 HTs with Dr De Reys, my third with Dr Raghu Reddy, and fourth with Dr De Reys. I remember Dr Reddy commenting how De De Reys had really looked after my donor area well and had left lots of chunky grafts. They also complemented the quality of his work too.

He has a nice set up in Belgium, where the operating surgery and accommodation is all under one roof, behind where he lives. When I went back the second time, we even took my son who was only 6 months old and they really looked after us well.

I had a really good experience with Dr Arshad and his team. One advantage with Dr Arshad over Dr De Reys is the aftercare. It can be a little harder to get hold of Dr De Reys, whereas I had regular calls and messages from Dr Arshad and his team.

If you pick either of these surgeons, I believe you'll be well looked after and get great results.
 
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