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FUE 4 Buzzcut Pros & Cons

S

solar panel

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#1
Hi all ,

would like a little feed back on my plan for HT FUE only, i've decided if i do a HT its gonna be FUE for a couple of reasons

PRO'S

1: i,m a diffuse thinner i've buzzed down for several years between a G-1 and G-0 and i,m comfortable with the look even to the point if i had no hair loss it would be my preferred hair style choice

2:as mentioned i'm diffuse so have full coverage only very thin so i,m going to go for coverage rather than density i,ve got approx 200cm to cover say average 6-7k grafts available maybe more if i use nape and beard hair i think i could get perhaps 40FU per CM times 2.3 hairs average should give me 92 hairs per CM which for me would be more than enough TBH

3: FUE would thin the sides which would help to minimise the the horseshoe effect of my balding pattern

CON'S

1: probably my main concern visible scarring if buzzed to G-1

2: my eventual NW i dont think i,m headed for a NW7 if i was i would not even consider a HT would just wet shave i think i,m headed for a NW5-6 max (do DT reveal there ultimate pattern Ie: diffuse thin in there destined pattern or does it thin in stages from a NW3-4 to NW 5-6-7?

to conclude i would estimate 4-5k FUwould give mea look i would be happy with so iwouldnt be depleting my donor if i did eventually become slick bald

hope this makes sense , any feed back appreciated

SP

 
the B spot

the B spot

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#3
Solar--- I think this is a fine plan. Your being realistic about your coverage---you like the idea of being able to buzz down as you desire, and you have a realistic idea of the amount of grafts you can safely estimate at this time.

You could have more grafts available than you estimate as well.

Addressing some of your cons:
1. If done properly and with properly sized tools, shaving to a 1 guard would likely result in a "thin/possibly gapped" look in the donor---this would be the result of over harvesting--- if your donor density is average you can take 25-30% max before your donor has the potential to look this way. If you are average density and you take 25% you will have roughly 4200-5300 grafts.

At that point you could see if you need additional grafts, etc... and what the effect would be on your donor.

It is also important to take the grafts evenly from the total donor area when doing larger sessions/planning 1-2-3 sessions to take a large amount of grafts.

We have seen instances of patients from other clinics having over-harvesting the donor in the very back of the donor region, only to have the difference in density be very visible. We have to then take grafts to help blend the actual donor region. Proper planning is essential.

You should always approach a HT with the idea that you will not be able to buzz your hair to a 0 guard with fue. I think a 1 guard is a fine goal, but I recommend doing 2000 grafts spread over the entire donor region first, then shaving down to see what effect you get---it may be that you could take another 2-3K and not notice anything or it may be that you can only take 1200-1500 more before the gaps become noticeable at a 1 guard.

The nice part about that is that if the grafts are taken evenly going to a #2 guard should present no problem in any case when staying in the 25% removal approach.

I hope this helps solar,
Jason
 
S

solar panel

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#4
Thx for the reply B spot

i like the approach you subjested 3 sessions seems like a good plan of attack, being able to see the way the doner looks after each session, perhaps it wont be as noticable to people going from thinned hair to thicker hair in the space of 12 months.

B- spot correct me if i'm wrong but are you a rep for Dr's Shapiro? I've read that they have started to offer FUE is this true and whats the largest session so far? also any idea of the cost for a 2000 FUE procedure?

Cheers

SP


 
Nervousnelly

Nervousnelly

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#5
Sp,

I think that your approach is a good one particularly because you favour the short/shaved look. The beauty of this is that you really are not going to need as many grafts for you to be happy. The longer a person keeps their hair, the more concern their is for natural blending into donor as well as requiring a shingling effect in the recipient region for things to be optimum. I know many balding guys that keep their hair very short and it is actually difficult to tell that they are losing their hair until they grow it out. Does this make sense?

NN
 
the B spot

the B spot

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#6
Solar--I've been a rep for SMG for quite a while now---I think since Aug. 2007??????
I know I listed it in my signature! :)

Right now we feel it is optimal for the patient to keep sessions to around 1000-1200 grafts or less per day.

For patients needing more than 1000 grafts we schedule a 2 day session.

Most of our sessions have been 300-500 grafts into scars and 1000-1500 graft hairline cases.

Our largest session is right under 2K. I know we are scheduled to have a patient in for 2200 grafts over 2 days next week.

At this time, I believe if you take a Monday/Tues 2 day session, 2000 fue grafts will be 10K.

If you need anything else, let me know

Take Care,
Jason

NN---- When are we going to see you back in Minny?



 
NotGoing2GoBald

NotGoing2GoBald

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#7
Hmmm,

normally I always try and argue against such a proposition, but your "pro's" points (i & ii) make it virtually impossible to do so. The only question is, will you be happy w/the buzzed look in the long run? How long have you had this hair style? In general, from my understanding, the problems w/FUE vs strip are the limitations it poses. One can't have nearly as many grafts transplanted in a single session; the over all yield rate is not comperable to that of strip; and unlike strip it is very case specific. Not everyone has the type of skin which will allow the FUE to yield well at all. I believe this is why Dr. Feller will not generally advocate FUE for everyone; he believes some patients are not FUE candidates, yet at the same time those very patients could be strip candidates.


I think you should go this route if your absolutely certain your content w/all of the following:
-intent on having a closely buzzed head.
- not looking to optimize density in the event that you want to grow your hair out in the future.
-content that you wont' be able to get as many grafts per session.
-content that you will be paying a premium for FUE.


Bottom line, if you REALLY want to wear your hair that short, then FUE is essentially your only option; apart from FUE-ing into scar after strip, but even then I don't think you can wear it to a #1 guard. FWIW I think the close shaved look, looks REALLY cool *IF* you have a hair line and stubble like your going for...not if your slap skin bald.


BSpot, is it true most patients can wear there hair to a #1 guard after FUE w/zero sign of surgery? How many grafts does a strip patient (from a top clinic) have to FUE into scar and how short can they go after doing so?
 
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the B spot

the B spot

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#8
NG---I believe that most patients can buzz to a #1-#2 without any real issue if the clinic uses a .75-1.0mm punch---I am more certain of a #2 guard, but why not a #1? Of course, there may be some empty spots or the occasional white dot---but again, some people feel it is a better alternative than even a great strip scar. I do not know what the individual patient can yield and still get to a #1--That would have to be done doing smaller sessions, then buzzing down to check.

The patient may be prone to scarring as well--regardless of tools used, but most people seem to heal without any real evidence of scarring in the donor region.

This is yet another reason to proceed with smaller sessions 500-2500 grafts---because you can check the impact on the donor as you go.

Like I posted previously, you have to take from the donor evenly--- and approach it like a disguise---- there is ALWAYS a threshold of extraction for every patient--- (for some you might take 8000 grafts for others 4500)--where the gaps become noticeable.

Example: Say solar comes in and we do 2000 fue grafts. We spread the extractions out around his entire head and we only extract 11-12% of the grafts per cm to get the grafts. He goes home, grows out his hair, looks like a million bucks. He buzzes down, no noticeable gaps or scarring.

Solar comes back in 18mo later--needs 2200 grafts---- we take a look--spread the extractions around and get 2200 grafts---Solar goes home, grows his hair out, looks like a million bucks.

However, at this point, we are at 22-25% extraction over the entire donor area and we have to pay very close attention to Solar's donor---is there any noticeable scarring? What does the donor region look like when buzzed to a #1? #2?
What is the coverage we have achieved? What is the coverage needed/desired?

It is possible that Solar could do another 1000, 2000 grafts and still keep his donor intact OR it is possible that if we did any additional work, the gaps would be noticeable AT A SHORT BUZZ TYPE CUT--- if Solar's intention is to keep his hair longer, then you could likely extract more----the shorter you want to keep your hair the less extracting you can do, imho.

The great part of the example is that solar could decide at what point he wants to stop, wants to continue, wants to alter his plan of keeping his hair at a buzz, etc... it would be his choice and he would be making it, not someone else.

Take Care,
Jason

 
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the B spot

the B spot

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#9
Sorry I didn't address this--fue into the scar is a bit dicey--- usually we are doing 300-400 grafts at low density to "break up" the scar---- once we get an indication of how the grafts will grow in the scar, we can proceed with another low density session 300-400 grafts.

As with all patients, it really depends on the patient as to how short you can shave down--- I do not believe we can ever get a patient down to a 0 guard and a #1 guard might be stretching it--but I have seen the occasional strip patient able to buzz to a #2 without notice---so to answer your question: If a top clinic does your strip HT and leaves you with a 2-2.5mm scar with some hair growing through---it may be possible to do some low density FUE into the scar and get that patient to a #2 guard without any notice--- maybe a #1 if we did a couple of passes and every graft transplanted grew. Again a #1 would be an amazing feat.

Another point is that the scar itself may have a different appearance--is it raised, pinkish, greyish, irregular, are the hairs growing through the trico closure at an odd angle compared to the rest of the donor, etc??

Of course, that is a lot of "if's" --- I believe a HT patient at a top clinic should plan of only being able to cut down to a #3 ---if you want to go down further than that, then strip is not for you, imho. Also, if you have lower than average donor density--plan on needing a #4-5 guard at the lowest to hide your scar---if that is an issue, then your not a strip candidate, imho.

It is also important that you stress this to your doctor---he/she can err on the side of caution and instead of going for the max, they go for the max that he/she knows will close safely, with less tension to produce an optimal scar.

Hope this helps!!!!
Jason
 
S

solar panel

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#10
Thx for the reply B-spot,

10k Dollars for 2k grafts seems about average nowadays, six months ago 10k dollars would have been about 5k pounds if the pound was still as strong against the dollar i,d have been booking a slot in SMG's chair.

BLOODY WANKERS oops mean BANKERS put the world spiraling in to a depression ::;mb

perhaps Hedgefund could sell his ferrari and donate the funds to me lol

J/K

SP
 
S

solar panel

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#11
Hi Ng

as mentioned i,m happy to sport a buzz cut but who knows after a couple of sessions of FUE i could get the hair greed bug and decide to go strip.

as it stands ATM FUE is the only option for me B/C i buzzed down when i realised i was thinning so alot of people are'nt aware of the amount of lose i have ( i guess people are not that interested in inspecting your hair) i posted a few pics on PB 's site last year and even the hair geeks like me said that i was thin in the front third only but with a NW2 hairline but i know that i,m diffused in a NW4-5 pattern just the frontal third is more diffused i guess.

one of my concerns which i cant seem to find any info on is my eventual NW pattern

being a D/T i wonder would this pattern be my final destination NW4-5 or could i thin out further to a 6-god forbid 7, it hard for me even to judge from family members the only 1 with MPB in my family is my father but he never started to lose til he was 50 (currently a NW4-5 D/T) where i started at about 28-9 .

NG i noticed on your thread that you are a NW4-5 D/T is that what H&W described your loss as? hope you get a chance to post your pics i'd love to compare them to mine even though i know i,m probably further down MPB street



cheers SP
 
NotGoing2GoBald

NotGoing2GoBald

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#12
the B spot wrote:
... Also, if you have lower than average donor density--plan on needing a #4-5 guard at the lowest to hide your scar---if that is an issue, then your not a strip candidate, imho.
Hey B,

I recently buzzed my hair down to a half an inch (#4) and on the sides you can see SOME scalp, in the back you can see none. Is this an indication that I have below average density? Of course at the MOST we can only say that this would be the case on the sides of my head and not the back.

I'm really interested in FUEing into scar as a back up plan if my hair loss becomes too extensive and as a result I won't be able to achieve overall density I'm happy with. Is FUEing into scar REALLY dicey? Like, worst case scenario if one donated 800 grafts into scar they should still be able to at least clip down to a #3 right?

Also, I've read from Dr. Feller that he believes scarring w/respect to over all trauma on the donor area is much greater than that of strip; how does SMG feel about taking a patient who ONLY wants FUE, but will require 3-4 procedures? Do you feel that this will cause too much trauma on the donor area and subsequently have an adverse affect on extraction and/or yield? Also, is it the case that some individual's are just not good candidates for FUE, irrespective of how small the case is, because it requires a certain skin pigmentation? I haven't researched FUE extensively but was under these assumptions based off of what Feller has written.
 
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the B spot

the B spot

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#13
NG--- for most people, density is higher in the back region and will gradually reduce as you go toward the front--this is normal.

FUE into the scar is a fairly cheap, non-invasive way to reduce the bare or patchy look to a scar. There is really no guarantee the grafts will grow--in most instances for a normal nice, non-raised scar that has decent blood supply the grafts will grow. There is really no set # of grafts b/c each scar is different.

I think a #4 guard is a safe goal post strip surgery--if your unhappy with a small section or two you can always do some fue into your scar at that point.

I am familiar with Dr. Feller's confluence of scarring assertion. I am under the impression he was talking about the scarring associated with clinics who use 1.1mm or larger punches and over harvest the donor. From a pure math standpoint, the amount of tissue extracted via fue has the potential to be greater than the amount of tissue removed via strip. However, a fue patient who has 1-2 sessions has the opportunity to observe and test the donor to see if this is occurring.

There are people who are just not fue candidates--either their skin is tough, or their grafts are very curved/splayed and the transection rate is too high to make doing fue an option. The same holds with people who are not strip candidates.

For someone who wants only FUE, we will advise the patient of their options and look at both long and short term goals. Obviously, if the patient is unrealistic or desires a particular approach that we feel is potentially harmful long-term, we will refuse to do the work and spend time educating the patient as to why we feel this way.

It is really about planning.

FUE is a great option. I love it. It is not a miracle option. Used properly, it will produce amazing results. Used improperly and you get complications like the one described by Dr. Feller and others.

Take Care,
Jason