Posters that blame the patients for going to bad clinics

[topccat29]

I thought this would be a good topic for discussion. It's all too easy to blame the patient that unknowingly goes to a bad HT clinic. It's not our fault that we have been conditioned to trust doctors from the moment of birth. Here is my reply from another fourm.

HTGT, sorry I would have to disagree with you here. If what you say is true then every person that visits a doctor in general practice that has unnecessary surgery or gets put on the pharmaceutical treadmill and ends up worse off down the line should fully accept 100% of the blame because that was their choice. The cold hard truth is people are conditioned to believe doctors and are being duped day in and day out as the medical industry increases their bottom line.

I guarantee you 90% of the posters here believe exactly what their doctor tells them because they are afraid and would be shi*tting in their pants to go against their advice. The statistics are out there they are just not widely reported. I mean come on Statins, Prozac, Lucentis, Viagra. Just one type of surgery for example cesarean section is at an all time high of 32% of all births. It's about in and out next please and padding the tab at the same time. The doctor could give a rat's ass about the patients well being or the scars.

I think this is all completely different. Until you can change the perception of the medical industry as being just as corrupt and greedy as any other and not what you were taught as a child that the guy in the white coat is there to help you and make you feel better then you simply can't place the blame on the patient. Children's first instinct of being afraid of that person in the white coat is probably the correct reaction. Maybe we should stop trying convince them that they are the good guys there to help.

And yes I finally found a great clinic. But I paid a very hefty price finding my way.

 

[Sparky]

Couldn't agree more. I read this post of yours before aswell.

Very annoyed with people that blame us for going to bad Dr's, like you say, we are brought up to trust these people and the last thing to cross our mind is that they are actually going to maim us for money, "do no harm" means nothing to them.

 

[zionaxel]

Basically both are to blame, crap Doctor ´s for being crap Doctor ´s who are f****ng up peoples lives and earning a good living out of doing it and us for being vulnerable in the first place and believing everything we see and read.

Trouble is the younger you are the easier you are to exploit. So i do agree with the post but at the same time no one holds a gun to your head and makes you have a H.T.

Personally my age let me down, if i only knew then what i know now..

 

[Bigmac]

Good topic, i hope anyone researching takes notice of this and don`t jump in like a lot of us did.

Hopefully more and more will find this forum and educate themselves before making any decisions.

 

[topccat29]

BM seriously, I too hope more find this forum as I can't say I have ever seen any nonsense posted here. It's all straight forward information so I mostly just read.

I seemed to be compelled to reply and post on nonsense, misinformation, or other issues that get under my skin and is easy to find on some of the other forums. Its like I'm looking for trouble and it just adds stress to my life. Not sure why I keep going back for more.

But like you said, it is important to help others not make a bad decision because we know what it can do to one's life.

 

[topccat29]

Okay, so I had a poster comment on another forum on my photos post op at 8 weeks and he was unimpressed. Obviously he did not take the time to read my history or the thread. He couldn €™t possibly have missed the sub title which clearly states 2 months. There are no results to be impressed with at 8 weeks. The post was only intended to show the healing process especially since close to 500 beard hairs had been extracted at that point from a very small area due to the fact that I do not have a very strong beard.

The poster seems to have a flippant attitude towards research as he seems to be just looking for pictures that suit what he desires to see. There are plenty available, but don €™t be this person when researching. It sounds like he also might like looking at shiny objects. If that is the extent of one €™s research than you can certainly blame the patient and not the clinic.

So I stand corrected and it's something I already knew but always seem to forget as I tend to look at the topic through my own experience. There are just as many patients out there that need to accept blame. So if you go to a bad clinic with all the information available today than man up and own it.

 

[Bigmac]

Thanks Topcat, i do like to keep this site nonsense free and provide information thats easy to understand and very straight forward.

bm.

 

[zionaxel]

Topcat there will always be pricks like that,i had some pics on another forum and some of the comments cracked me up.Real potato heads i wouldn ´t let it bother you.

 

[ronnyalden]

If you do you a poster and a hairloss forum, not a doctor you get a transplant because of reading. Over the last decade, OxyContin has become a popular drug and the effects of changing his mind has been a significant increase in illegal use.

 

[topccat29]

The same poster that made a point of posting his €œunimpressive € comment on my thread on another forum where I was only showing my healing results as there were no results to show after 8 weeks, somehow finds it fitting to post on to another thread where 4 French patients have experienced extensive body and face scarring from a US bht/beard doctor and stating he does not see any problem.

Well as a very long time forum member I have seen this movie before and I know how it ends. The forum member posted to my thread in hopes that he could discredit me somehow, but he can €™t because you can €™t discredit the truth. The movie did end the same as the thread showing one of the French patients has been removed.

And this is what makes it so hard to sometimes to blame the patient. These guys are clueless to what is really going on out there as they have not been around long enough to understand.

 

[Bigmac]

Some members aren`t legit, they have hidden agenda`s and seem to get off on putting people down.

 

[topccat29]

This is such a back and forth issue for me and there is no easy answer.

I have been posting for at least 12 years now and so of course over that time you get a better understanding of how the forums work and how the clinics and their posters/patients all fit into the big picture. Sometimes it €™s interesting just to sit back and watch it as they are all working their angles. This is what makes it so difficult when doing research and why it takes so long. Whom do you trust as being legitimate and who is in it just for the money. Who is a real poster and who has multiple screen names.

Most that know me have seen many of my posts on some of the other forums and not so much here on HLE. The reason being is I just don €™t see the type of deceptive activity here that I see going on in some of the other forums, plain and simple. So I feel more of a responsibility to respond to those posts especially if I feel someone that is new to the forums has a chance of being misled. I don €™t want that clueless person to have to go through what I and others have gone through.

Why do I take the time to do all of this posting? Well 25 years ago I was misled and I was misled several times. But of course I was not alone and there are many other posters/patients that have also made bad decisions because we believed what we were being told. Of course it €™s easy to blame the patient for not doing the proper research but as I have often stated in the past we are conditioned to believe doctors and 25 years ago without having access to the internet and only a limited amount of information it seemed like a good decision with the information available. After all why would a doctor do something that would cause me harm, they were there to help me. In hindsight we can all look back on many decisions we have all made and say to ourselves what exactly was I thinking that I could be so wrong.

Many do not like what I have to say and I can understand that completely. After all it can very well have an effect on their bottom line so sometimes it is taken very personally. But these are just my own personal views from what I have seen and are only offered for consideration. I don €™t care for clinics that uses drills or do mega sessions especially when body and beard hair is being used. I don €™t care for doctors that are in the business but have absolutely no artistic ability. I don €™t care for doctors that try to educate patients but have a closet full of skeletons. I don €™t care for the strip procedure. I don €™t care for doctors that use giant fue punches. And I especially don €™t care for clinics and doctors €™ that treat their patients like second class citizens and try to intimidate them to keep them from posting. If you need to threaten someone to keep them silent than obviously something is not quite right. This also applies to forums that feel they need to ban me because they consider what I have to say as being dangerous. The only danger is to their bottom line and those in their coalition.

I have had others that claimed I am getting free work. Anyone that knows me knows that I do not like getting anything for free. It actually makes me feel a little uncomfortable and I constantly feel the need to reciprocate. I did receive one pro bono procedure from BHR of approximately 800 fue. I was okay with that one procedure because I felt like I worked for it by letting others know about my situation and hoping they would vote for me during a contest in which anyone could have entered. The fact is I was given 2 days of pro bono work but was asked if I would be willing to give up one of those days to 2 other repair patients but that it was not expected. Well of course I really wanted both days but there is just no way could I not give that other day to someone else that also really needed it. I bring this all up only because some posters on other forums are under the false impression that I am beholden to someone or a particular clinic which is simply not true. I received one small pro bone procedure. I paid for my flight and my hotel. I ended up taking 8 weeks off from work and lost all that pay because I wasn €™t sure how well I was going to heal. I then lost my job a few months later directly due to taking that time off. So it really did end up costing it much more than I ever thought it would. But I definitely would not have changed a thing but it was hardly free. I also would have chosen BHR to begin with it just would have taken me a few years longer as I was still trying to work up the courage to be able to trust anyone. But I always felt they were the best.

I go out of my way to try and not post to BHR threads even though the work in my eyes is exceptional. It seems like pandering to me and I have even posted that sentiment in the past. Clinics doing great work and treating their patients exceptionally well do not need my recommendation. Have I posted to their threads yes, but most of the time I don €™t comment.

I recently felt the need to mention on another forum that one of the repair patients I gave up half my pro bono offer to happened to be from a another clinic. I have never done this before as I have no reason to as I thought it takes somewhat of a negative tone. But it was only to prove a point that I have never even mentioned this before in over 2 years of posting and only bring it up now because for some reason I am being attacked by patients of that same clinic. As I have written I had no reason to post this fact as I have nothing to gain or lose I was simply trying to help someone out who needed as much help as I did.

What I really find troubling is the fact that this same clinic would try to threaten me with e-mail correspondence from a consultation which is at least 5 years old. I have no problem giving them my permission with releasing this correspondence as long as real names and addresses are omitted. Unfortunately for anyone that would try and sully my character, I am an extremely honest and truthful person so I don €™t have anything to hide. For some strange reason they believe I harbor ill feeling towards them when that is simply not true. What happened over the course of that research point was a blessing for me. It is only through those types of interactions that you are able to learn more about both the clinic and the doctor.

Here is something I find truly interesting about both myself and other patients especially repair patients. We become so desperate that often times we seem completely powerless. Even though my interaction with this clinic was less than pleasant I still considered a test session. Luckily for me the doctor did not like my e-mail response and cancelled my appointment. But here is the strange part and only a repair patient would understand. I found myself apologizing out of desperation and I have seen this same reaction from so many others that have found themselves in a similar position. They were treated very poorly but somehow they were put in the position of apologizing. Now when viewed out of context it would appear that the patient did something wrong, after all why would he be apologizing. I wish I could explain why this happens but my only answer would be desperation. Nobody wants to be in a position where they feel they have been disfigured. So when you see other threads where patients are apologizing in a video you will get a better understanding of why this might be happening.

I have no axe to grind against any clinic and I just call it like I see it. I have spoken to dozens and dozens of people and I am very well aware of what goes on. I certainly do not come on the internet and repeat what I know to make any clinic look bad and I would have plenty of stories to tell. I point out facts about what goes on in the industry and its spread out very evenly all one has to do is take the time to look. I have consulted with many clinics and I didn €™t choose those clinics for many reasons.

Of course I would like to keep posting and trying to help others but when 3 or 4 patients from one clinic feel it €™s okay to gang up and attack me and compare me to a rapist, I must say it is a little overwhelming and I do start to ask myself why am I wasting my time. But I also know so many other posters in the past that have helped me were also driven off the forums and it was kind of sad to watch it all happen but this is all part of how some in this industry feel they need to operate.

My view is much bigger and I would like to see some of this change. I also always have a reason for not liking a particular issue. When it comes to drills my opinion is the yield appears to be much lower when performing fue. I'm sure it's faster and easier but that does not benefit the patient. I also believe that these huge mega sessions might be able to achieve the occasional home run but the risk of hitting a foul ball is very high. No patient should take this risk when it's not necessary as the result could be disasterous and the whole idea behind all of this is to make the patient feel better and not worse.

 

[Sparky]

They are very biased on the website you are referring to, and seem to love one doc in particular, and they delete anything bad written about him.

I read all the posts, and couldn't see where you were bashing any particular clinic.

 

[Sofarsogood]

"where 4 French patients have experienced extensive body and face scarring from a US bht/beard doctor " - topcat

These guys were shameless "hair grifters" looking to blackmail this doc for free (or discounted) work after getting excellent results. The doctor in question did nothing wrong.

There is video evidence of this on another forum from the mouth of their ringleader himself sporting an excellent FUE/BHT result.

There was no evidence of scarring and the grifter was very happy with his result. It's all on video. He smiles, compliments the doc, rubs his head and pleads for more work from him after his lame attempt at blackmail. He is seen pleading for "one more chance". Pathetic.

Topcat knows all this and yet refuses to retract his incorrect take on the situation. But giving him the benefit of the doubt, he posted this before the truth about these characters was revealed. Will he retract this false claim now? He hasn't as of yet on other forums.

Seek out the video. It's quite something. What a strange business.

Moderator, may I post the link to the video that was posted on another forum or is this in violation to the rules here?

Thanks,
sofar
(josh)
))N_)

 

[zionaxel]

Bigmac wrote:

Thanks Topcat, i do like to keep this site nonsense free and provide information thats easy to understand and very straight forward.

bm.

Couldn ´t agree more..Which set ´s itself well above any other hair site on the net.

 

[topccat29]

If you would have read my original reply to that original thread before it ever was deleted you would know that I told the patient I was sorry he had a bad experience. I also made a second post where I asked the forum moderator to post the consent forms so that we could try and understand why the patient would not sign the release. The forum moderator had enough common sense and intelligence to clearly state this in one of his own posts where he clearly separates me from some of the other posters as I attacked no one.

I have never once stated that I gave up of some of the pro bono work to a patient of your clinic of choice in all the time I have been posting. I mentioned it now only after being attacked and referred to as a rapist. It was never mentioned before because I really didn €™t care as I was just helping another repair patient and that is all. But somehow you just can €™t seem to understand this and take what I have to post very personal and I €™m not quite sure why. I also never said his being a repair patient had anything to do with your clinic of choice and it was never meant to be implied. Maybe on that point I might have been a little clearer, but I was a little overwhelmed from the attack.

I also told you that I had no idea what a hair grifter was before hearing it from you. I have been around the forums for a long time and I didn €™t know that people went around blackmailing clinics for free work. It could very well be true and I never wrote that it wasn €™t. I guess it just seemed kind of crazy to me.

As I have stated anyone can look at my posting history and the style has always been the same going back 12 years, nothing has changed. I bring up points some clinic would probably prefer I left alone. I could give you dozens and dozens of examples. I started a thread on a doctor that was charging $3K for approximately 50 plucked hairs using Acell which I thought was completely outrageous. On occasion I will mention the clinic that has the repair case highlighted on their website that in actuality was a complete failure but it not portrayed as one if you were to view their website. I happen to know the patient. I have brought up the clinic that recommended patients slather minoxidil all over their body before bht which I thought was completely reckless. I was banned from the other forum long ago for speaking out against Gho and Bazan but a year later was allowed to post again. I speak to some Bazan patients and let me tell you their experience is very sad. I was banned from another forum because I was told my pro fue stance was considered dangerous. I could go on and on but I do not single out any clinic and I ask questions to learn more for both myself and others. I have dozens and dozens of stories I could tell but I have never posted them to the internet.

I decided to reply to this forum because some of the other forums have posters with multiple screens names and it almost becomes impossible to post anything of intelligence and I don €™t see that happening here.

 

[Sofarsogood]

Just for clarity,

The patient topcat implied was wronged by my doc of choice was indeed a patient of his. A happy one. Perhaps for financial reasons he, like topcat, needed to seek further repair work for free or at a discounted rate. That's cool by me and completely understandable. This HT game is expensive.

This patient was "wronged" by strip docs, repeatedly.

He then went to two other "top" FUE docs before the doc who repaired me. Topcat never included this information in his posts. I wonder why?

Then he went to topscat's clinic for the promotional free work. His result from them, like topcat's, has yet to be seen and celebrated.

This patient has been through the ringer and I truly hope he's in better shape now.

Here are some quotes from this patient whom, imo, topcat was tying to imply was a former patient of my doc of choice because of some problem with my clinic of choice's work on him in order to harm their reputation:

"he's a workaholic, he knows it takes big numbers for improvement and he does what it takes, working till all hours with minimal help, no one can touch him in this regard, this is what sets him apart, my last trip he even drove me to the hotel, personally"

"i had beard hair with [him] and at 4 months ive had some decent growth thus far, and no scarring on my face all at a reasonable price, without beard hair id be screwed €¦ "

"all [his] patients are extremely gratefull and happy €¦"

"he has had many successes, he has worked on some of the most difficult cases, where big numbers were warranted, he is skilled, compassionate, and, all at a fair price, he doesnt gouge, which is important because he works on alot of people who have been throught the ringer, i will finish my remaining fue with him."

"i agree [he] has taken the most difficult cases and has been able to offer hope for many who thought that they were beyond help, his work ethic is unmatched and his kindness is what sets him apart, good luck and keep us posted with future updates and also let us know how your life has changed €¦"

So Mr. topcat,

Why did you feel the need to point out that this patient had previous work with my doc of choice when he was clearly a happy patient of his? What was your intention?

Why not just say you were mistaken about the Frenchmen (grifters) and apologize for jumping to conclusions and using their cases to attempt to harm an honest clinic that fixes cases from "top" docs poor work day in and day out?

Why are you on this crusade to harm an honest clinic?

We both have our clinics of choice because of our personal experiences with them. In my case, the result has held up great for over five years. Your's hasn't grown out yet. I'm hoping you get the result you seek.

We are both "cheerleaders" for our clinics of choice.

The difference is, I don't spam on your clinic's every thread trying to harm their reputation.

That's just not how I roll.
:::C

 

[topccat29]

It €™s almost as if you have a problem with reading comprehension and I don €™t say that to be insulting but really how else does one respond to someone that clearly is not reading. I wish I could cut and paste the original thread but it was deleted.

But I will quote the forum moderator.

With the exception of Topcatt, not a single poster below cares to know why Apichu refuses to let his doctor speak. People are brainwashed the moment they read a sensational story about bad hair transplant work.

 

[Sofarsogood]

No cat,

I do not have a reading comprehension problem.

"where 4 French patients have experienced extensive body and face scarring from a US bht/beard doctor " - topcat

"I recently felt the need to mention on another forum that one of the repair patients I gave up half my pro bono offer to happened to be from a another clinic." - topcat

I believe you have a problem admitting when you are wrong and what your agenda has been lately.

The two cases you've been using on various forums to attempt to harm an honest clinic are complete red herrings.

One was a hustler, the other a happy patient.
Even the hustler was a happy patient. Lol.

What was your intention siting these cases?
Why do you post on every thread regarding one particular clinic trying to harm them?

I have my theory and I'm sure the truth will be revealed in time.

So far as "artistry"...
Here is what my clinic of choice was able to accomplish in a day with 1000 leg hair grafts placed in and around minis/micros that caused ridging:

Before:

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h63/sofarsogoodx/Ubefore11.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h63/sofarsogoodx/aleftsidebefore2.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h63/sofarsogoodx/aRightsidebefore2.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h63/sofarsogoodx/ajmrightsidepulledback.jpg

After pure BHT:

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h63/sofarsogoodx/BHTcomp3.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h63/sofarsogoodx/JMBHTjan107d.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h63/sofarsogoodx/JMafter2010-1.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h63/sofarsogoodx/BHTwGel1.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h63/sofarsogoodx/JMshorthair.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h63/sofarsogoodx/Sofarsogood_58.jpg

Hoping you are as pleased with your result.

 

[topccat29]

SFSG I think if you would give these 4 patients the permission to post most long time forum members wouldn't have been asking any questions.