Bigmac
Administrator
Staff member
I can assure everyone that no shills will be taking over this forum.
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Welcome to Hair loss Experiences hair loss forum.
Free impartial hair loss advice, hair transplant advice, hair loss medications and hair loss news.
You can contact us directly at [email protected] if you experience any problems.
topccat29
29 year HT veteran
Okay break time is over LOL
Something about the forums that most do not understand is that you have to read them on a daily basis for a few years in order to understand what is going on. This is critical when using them as a research tool. Unfortunately most feel a few months is all that is needed but that in my opinion is a big mistake.
The problem is not the postings that they are reading but the postings they have missed. That is where the real information happens to be. But unless one is consistent, that information may never be known to them.
Being consistent has become part of my own personality because I understand its importance. I made a vow to myself that I would try to help others avoid a similar fate as my own. I am the type of person that when I make a commitment I stick to it. And although it appears to be all time consuming it s not. It requires very little time each day but on a consistent basis. No different when people ask me about exercise. Exercise requires a very small time commitment but one needs to be consistent. So if you do it 15 minutes a day and you can be consistent each and every day you would be amazed at the difference you can make.
Something about the forums that most do not understand is that you have to read them on a daily basis for a few years in order to understand what is going on. This is critical when using them as a research tool. Unfortunately most feel a few months is all that is needed but that in my opinion is a big mistake.
The problem is not the postings that they are reading but the postings they have missed. That is where the real information happens to be. But unless one is consistent, that information may never be known to them.
Being consistent has become part of my own personality because I understand its importance. I made a vow to myself that I would try to help others avoid a similar fate as my own. I am the type of person that when I make a commitment I stick to it. And although it appears to be all time consuming it s not. It requires very little time each day but on a consistent basis. No different when people ask me about exercise. Exercise requires a very small time commitment but one needs to be consistent. So if you do it 15 minutes a day and you can be consistent each and every day you would be amazed at the difference you can make.
janna
Moderator
It s been about 5 years since I ve been posting on various forums. I was very green when I started. I took every poster at their word and thought each poster were legitimate. I didn t have the word shill as part of my volcab until about a year later. Ghost posters, or someone with multiple alias s on these boards were concepts I didn t think of until it was pointed out to me. I was shocked at the amount of manipulations going on. I don t believe most newbie s will ever know about multiple alias s and shills. I would think it would take a lot of time and energy to manipulate others but some shills have nothing but time and motivation (commission money) to put into these forums. I recall hearing of one particular sales consultant who urges others to post on his topics and to post what a swell guy he is. And I know firsthand he s tried his luck at urging others to post negative things about other clinics. He knows how to work the forum system to his full advantage.
It takes a long time and an astute person to sift through what s fact from fiction. Otherwise, there s a good chance of not only being manipulated but also part of the manipulation. I would say just about all the active posters from when I started have moved on. It s difficult to stay on top of what s going on the forums. Even for me who is in the industry can t keep up. 15 minutes a day to me is unrealistic unless you re talking about just one forum. You get pulled into a subject and 15 minutes turns into an hour in no time.
It takes a long time and an astute person to sift through what s fact from fiction. Otherwise, there s a good chance of not only being manipulated but also part of the manipulation. I would say just about all the active posters from when I started have moved on. It s difficult to stay on top of what s going on the forums. Even for me who is in the industry can t keep up. 15 minutes a day to me is unrealistic unless you re talking about just one forum. You get pulled into a subject and 15 minutes turns into an hour in no time.
bullitnut
4 awesome repairs with SMG
Forums are a funny thing i agree, on one hand they can provide a wealth of knowledge essential for helping people in the right direction, on the other hand people can very easily be mislead into believing false and innacurate information.
This is why i agree with Topcat, Janna and the others when they say it can take a long time to sift through to find out whats true and whats not.
The info is there that can help you, its just hard to find, mainly because of incentive driven people who are more than willing to be your friend publicly on the forums, but that are even more happy to stab you in the back behind the scenes;;D.
So to any potential newbie its vital you read as much info as poss.... i would also recommend to re read it again afterwards and have a good think.
Things are not always as they seemc;;9 , unfortunately shills do exist and given the nature of this industry i can't honestly see them going anytime soon::;mb.
I have a lot to be thankfull for to the forums, and i geniunely believe they are a fantastic research tool for anyone interested in HT'S.
I would also like to commend BM for providing an impartial, friendly and great forum ¬b`
Bullit
This is why i agree with Topcat, Janna and the others when they say it can take a long time to sift through to find out whats true and whats not.
The info is there that can help you, its just hard to find, mainly because of incentive driven people who are more than willing to be your friend publicly on the forums, but that are even more happy to stab you in the back behind the scenes;;D.
So to any potential newbie its vital you read as much info as poss.... i would also recommend to re read it again afterwards and have a good think.
Things are not always as they seemc;;9 , unfortunately shills do exist and given the nature of this industry i can't honestly see them going anytime soon::;mb.
I have a lot to be thankfull for to the forums, and i geniunely believe they are a fantastic research tool for anyone interested in HT'S.
I would also like to commend BM for providing an impartial, friendly and great forum ¬b`
Bullit
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H
hairtech
member
Man what is even more disturbing is the fact that there are actual REAL people looking to find information on hair transplants within these forums. And these folks go to google... type in the word "hair transplants" and all the forums line up by popularity. Then the person goes to forum X... and begins to read... just as anyone does when looking up a topic of interest. Hell I use forums to look up problems with my boat or my car or my damn laptop... normally these forums aren't driven by money... So they give information to try to help someone out...
Hair forums in my opinion are a double edged sword for "real" actual folks trying to just get information.
In the beginning(even before my first post in 2002), hair forums "outed" the bad clinics... the bad work, the scars, the horrible yields, the horrible hairlines... the brandy lifts, the flaps, the shotgun plugs, plugs, etc. etc...
Fast forward to now:
Hair forums have regular posters, newbies, old school posters, doctors (who post and argue online which is unprofessional imo), clinic representatives, angry posters, happy posters, forum moderators, and then the worst case scenario poster... the shills and ghost posters. Oh I forgot to mention forum owners who pretty much control everything from the posters themselves to the content (not so much this forum).
So how can a regular new honest reader/poster just trying to find out information hair transplants... actually find "real" information? *nl
At this point it is hard to say... with the exception of long term posters who care.
Hair forums in my opinion are a double edged sword for "real" actual folks trying to just get information.
In the beginning(even before my first post in 2002), hair forums "outed" the bad clinics... the bad work, the scars, the horrible yields, the horrible hairlines... the brandy lifts, the flaps, the shotgun plugs, plugs, etc. etc...
Fast forward to now:
Hair forums have regular posters, newbies, old school posters, doctors (who post and argue online which is unprofessional imo), clinic representatives, angry posters, happy posters, forum moderators, and then the worst case scenario poster... the shills and ghost posters. Oh I forgot to mention forum owners who pretty much control everything from the posters themselves to the content (not so much this forum).
So how can a regular new honest reader/poster just trying to find out information hair transplants... actually find "real" information? *nl
At this point it is hard to say... with the exception of long term posters who care.
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topccat29
29 year HT veteran
I have found that if one skims through the posting titles and is interested mostly in one area, for me it was surgical hair restoration, then you can develop the skill of knowing which threads to take a look at and comment if necessary. Of course this might result in missing an important thread here or there but for the most part it s an effective method.
Over time you almost develop a sixth sense and know exactly what to look for in postings. Anyone who has been here for any length of time knows everyone in the neighborhood here. This is why it is so important for those new to the neighborhood to know everyone first before making any big decisions.
My suggestion to others has always been to meet people in person whenever possible or at a minimum speak to them on the phone. You will get a better sense of the integrity of the person.
As far as doctors that attack other doctors I will admit it does make for good entertainment. But my personal opinion is that it is a slippery slope for a clinic that initiates an attack against a doctor or another poster. A clinic that takes such an approach must be a pillar of HT community with an impeccable record of both results and ethics. When this is not the case than it can only turn out badly for the initiator as eventually the truth comes out and there is nowhere for them to hide. But I fully understand a clinic or poster that needs to defend themselves from such attacks. When these attacks go unanswered than it could easily appear to most readers that the person being attacked has something to hide. So although it s not pretty one does have to speak up to set the record straight.
Clinics that are constantly striving towards better and better results along with top notch patient care have no need to partake is this type of activity. It would be equivalent to Apple computer speaking badly about Joe s computer shop down on the corner because somehow they were a threat. You are not going to see it happen. Apple is more concerned about continually improving their customer s experience.
Over time you almost develop a sixth sense and know exactly what to look for in postings. Anyone who has been here for any length of time knows everyone in the neighborhood here. This is why it is so important for those new to the neighborhood to know everyone first before making any big decisions.
My suggestion to others has always been to meet people in person whenever possible or at a minimum speak to them on the phone. You will get a better sense of the integrity of the person.
As far as doctors that attack other doctors I will admit it does make for good entertainment. But my personal opinion is that it is a slippery slope for a clinic that initiates an attack against a doctor or another poster. A clinic that takes such an approach must be a pillar of HT community with an impeccable record of both results and ethics. When this is not the case than it can only turn out badly for the initiator as eventually the truth comes out and there is nowhere for them to hide. But I fully understand a clinic or poster that needs to defend themselves from such attacks. When these attacks go unanswered than it could easily appear to most readers that the person being attacked has something to hide. So although it s not pretty one does have to speak up to set the record straight.
Clinics that are constantly striving towards better and better results along with top notch patient care have no need to partake is this type of activity. It would be equivalent to Apple computer speaking badly about Joe s computer shop down on the corner because somehow they were a threat. You are not going to see it happen. Apple is more concerned about continually improving their customer s experience.
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janna
Moderator
My post wasn't referring to doctors/clinics that attack or bad mouth other clinic's work. I'm not niave to think this pratice doesn't occur. I'm referring to consultants who manipulate the forums.
topccat29
29 year HT veteran
Janna I should probably highlight quotes when I have a response as I was answering 2 different posts. My response about doctors was directed towards something Hairtech posted but he might have decided to edit that portion out.
H
hairtech
member
Ya it bothers me also when consultants manipulate the forums.
topccat29
29 year HT veteran
I m not so sure the consultants have that much control in manipulating the forums. That final decision comes down to the forum owners and how they decide to moderate. Will they look out for their own interests or will they make the moral and ethical choice? That s the funny thing about the truth, in the end it usually rises to the surface. Consultants that are knowingly trying to manipulate or deceive others usually are called out by other posters and when there is no logical answer forthcoming it usually becomes apparent to most with any common sense. But if these responses from posters are deleted then of course manipulation is taking place. This does happen regularly and many posters are aware of it.
I guess that was the point of this thread and part of the value of the long time poster. They don t work in the industry and are not compensated. They can speak freely in any way they choose and don t need to moderate what they write for fear of it jeopardizing their livelihood. For the most part these long time posters are often repair patients but not always. They do it because they are sickened by what they see and if they don t step forward and speak out then who will? Certainly not many of these clinics. This is the same reason we see forums that are knowingly corrupted still pulling in revenue from clinics that might not agree with the forum s ethics but help support them anyway because they feel they will benefit somehow.
I think it is very hard for many to understand why someone would spend the time to help others and also try and help change an industry when there is no compensation involved. Repair patients need no help in understanding this at all. All one needs to do is look at the long list of everyday people that became public speakers, something most would fear but these people were so affected by a negative experience in their life that they were driven past the fear of speaking before a group and feel an obligation to do it. They are driven to help others avoid the same experience. It is usually the victims that often force change by opening the eyes of others.
I guess that was the point of this thread and part of the value of the long time poster. They don t work in the industry and are not compensated. They can speak freely in any way they choose and don t need to moderate what they write for fear of it jeopardizing their livelihood. For the most part these long time posters are often repair patients but not always. They do it because they are sickened by what they see and if they don t step forward and speak out then who will? Certainly not many of these clinics. This is the same reason we see forums that are knowingly corrupted still pulling in revenue from clinics that might not agree with the forum s ethics but help support them anyway because they feel they will benefit somehow.
I think it is very hard for many to understand why someone would spend the time to help others and also try and help change an industry when there is no compensation involved. Repair patients need no help in understanding this at all. All one needs to do is look at the long list of everyday people that became public speakers, something most would fear but these people were so affected by a negative experience in their life that they were driven past the fear of speaking before a group and feel an obligation to do it. They are driven to help others avoid the same experience. It is usually the victims that often force change by opening the eyes of others.
Bigmac
Administrator
Staff member
topccat29 wrote:
So its difficult to control these unless a direct pattern or agenda is there.
Newbies researching want to believe what they read and usually have no idea who they are talking to on the forums.
I like to think this site as well as some others offer great information with no bias.
There are people around who will use others to do their bidding, buddy a normal user up and then feed them information they want posting, the unfortunate member then posts (whatever) thinking he is doing right.
So its difficult to control these unless a direct pattern or agenda is there.
Newbies researching want to believe what they read and usually have no idea who they are talking to on the forums.
I like to think this site as well as some others offer great information with no bias.
topccat29
29 year HT veteran
BM, I agree newbies are going to believe what they want to believe especially when they are in their 20 s.I seldom reply to those posts because it seems like wasted effort. They are going to do what they want to do and not think about the consequences for the most part.
I would say my biggest issue with the forums is when someone is in some way dissuaded in stating their views. I remember the first time I was banned from a forum back in 2003. I couldn t believe that I was being censored. I had already been posting for a few years and I had no idea that this type of deception was even happening. Today it is still my biggest issue whether it is a deleted posting, a banned poster, or just a personal attack. When it s done to suppress information that is essential in making a decision it s hard for me to stomach.
The forum here is very much appreciated.
I would say my biggest issue with the forums is when someone is in some way dissuaded in stating their views. I remember the first time I was banned from a forum back in 2003. I couldn t believe that I was being censored. I had already been posting for a few years and I had no idea that this type of deception was even happening. Today it is still my biggest issue whether it is a deleted posting, a banned poster, or just a personal attack. When it s done to suppress information that is essential in making a decision it s hard for me to stomach.
The forum here is very much appreciated.
H
hairtech
member
I am completely agree with Topcat.
Bigmac
Administrator
Staff member
Cheers Topcat.
topccat29
29 year HT veteran
BM another point you made I also agree with and I have seen it before.
Recently a patient who has been on the forums for about 2 months praised the consultant of a clinic and commented on how he followed his posts for a long time and this is what was so helpful in making his decision to go with that particular clinic. Well that consultant as been posting for about 5 months hardly a long time and also appears to be relatively new to the industry along with being fairly young in age.
This is the type of crap I don t like to see. It s being deceptive and anyone who has been around knows it is complete bullshit except for a newbie who is the target. In my opinion both posters don t know jack shit about this industry nor do they care about honestly helping people. For them it s all a game about making money.
But when this type of situation is pointed out some in the industry believe it s a good idea to attack the person that brings it up.
Recently a patient who has been on the forums for about 2 months praised the consultant of a clinic and commented on how he followed his posts for a long time and this is what was so helpful in making his decision to go with that particular clinic. Well that consultant as been posting for about 5 months hardly a long time and also appears to be relatively new to the industry along with being fairly young in age.
This is the type of crap I don t like to see. It s being deceptive and anyone who has been around knows it is complete bullshit except for a newbie who is the target. In my opinion both posters don t know jack shit about this industry nor do they care about honestly helping people. For them it s all a game about making money.
But when this type of situation is pointed out some in the industry believe it s a good idea to attack the person that brings it up.
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H
hairtech
member
The ghost poster phenomena... It speaks volumes that 99% of the time... people want to find information and want to trust the information given to them... And then comes a ghost poster... an undercover shill.
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