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How some forums operate

topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
Some forums seem to be run rather well with proper moderation while still giving patients the ability to voice their opinion. But some forums can only be described as a complete disgrace. What I don €™t quite understand is how reputable clinics sponsor such sites in good conscience. Is this really how far the hair transplant industry has come? Do some of you actually feel this represents your profession well?
 
sl

sl

BHR Clinic Patient Advisor
Hi Topcat.

Good question and one aimed at the industry.

From my point of view as both an industry worker and a person who has his case posted on a forum and with permission of patients posted many cases and results, I don't think there is legitimate place on a forum or otherwise to belittle another clinic or indeed another patient's result.

When patients post their case, from whatever clinic, they are doing so in the main to benefit and give back to the forum communities. This in itself is admirable and a hard decision and one that only the small percentages will do, no matter how good or spectacular the case will be.

Patients who post listen to comments aired with regard to their case and it can really lift their spirits. I had an email from a patient yesterday who said he is delighted with the comments the community had voiced concerning his own result so far, it means so much more than what I may say as an industry worker.

It is a crying shame when people who have suffered greatly with hair loss and are brave enough to give back then sometimes for political or other reasons are subject to ridicule. We all have different thoughts on protocols and procedures but this doesn't give carte blanche to assassinate others whose result or clinic we may not like. I know patients from several clinics who have then simply pulled their results after such subjection.

I believe the overwhelming majority of posters are sincere and genuine people but there will be a small percentage who for whatever reason are insensitive to the hair loss sufferer and are less than tactful in voicing their opinions. This is the same in any walk of life and to answer the question doesn't represent the profession as a whole, but undoubtedly is an unpleasant reality of society at large.

There is a balance between censorship and freedom of speech but all forums should have a code of practice that the subscriber should adhere to and that needs to be monitored by the forum facilitators. To not do so will simply bring discredit to the forum and will effect the genuine poster who seeks to give back. Shame.
 
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topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
SL thanks for the feedback. I don €™t take it too personally when I €™m attacked as I feel comfortable enough in both my views and my result. I also understand many are not going to agree with my views many which come from experience and extensive reading and I'm okay with that and I'm always open to learning from others.

There is a video that has been allowed to be posted to a thread in the HM section of one forum titled hairman2, rev and cal with topcat in video. Obviously the poster does not like the views of those names listed.

I don €™t take it personally but what I am amazed with is what it says about the industry when this is what is allowed while genuinely informative posts are readily deleted. I €™m sure many ghost readers see this and run as far away from the industry as possible.
 
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Z

zionaxel

Valued member
Just had a look at what was mentioned , nasty bunch on there have to say . Utter pants ....
 
topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
I guess what I €™m really trying to get at here is would a prospective patient after seeing this type of thread presented as information think twice about proceeding with a hair transplant?
 
Westcoaster

Westcoaster

member
The way I see it - if reputable clinics steered clear of such forums any prospective newbie would only have the best of a bad bunch to choose from, this in itself would be disastrous for the patient.

When reputable clinics post their albums, the prospective patient can easily see the difference in quality, therefor making a more informed choice.

I agree though that bad moderation is unacceptable, there is no need for personal attacks, members who indulge in such activities should be banned or at least reprimanded.
 
topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
Sorry westcoaster I would have to disagree with that approach. Nobody with a reputation of value in the business world would risk having it stained by associating their name with something undesirable, it €™s unheard of in most cases. If they do than they don't have much of a reputation to risk.

Not sure if you are a parent but would a parent feel comfortable bringing their child to a pediatrician that advertised on a porno site. So what does the industry think hair transplant patients are shit and deserve a lower standard?

It €™s up to the patient to search out information that is honest and truthful. Common sense should tell them that if a forum is run in such a way the information presented could very well be bad information.
 
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topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
Yeah so the guy that went for the mega session and now appears to have a large portion of his scalp developing necrosis as a picture was posted by someone that seems to be very familiar with the case and the original poster/patient has disappeared that gets taken down rather quickly by another forum while the S&M video stays up for quite a long time. What a lovely industry very helpful indeed just not for the patient.
 
topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
I am amazed to watch a forum that banned me literally wetting their pants over the robotic fue device that uses giant punches, oh but don €™t worry smaller ones will be coming soon in the mean time why not just give the giant punch a whirl. If this is too much information for you than really is it that so hard not to read. Too many on some of the forums are not there to help you they are simply weasels looking to line their pockets with a few sheckles.

I mean really how does someone that runs a forum have the balls to send me the message below and then knowingly persuade prospective patients that the robot with it €™s massive punches are okay. I will tell you why because they don €™t give a rat €™s ass about what happens to you, plain and simple and you will not be back to complain because they will simply delete your account. It €™s like a giant spider web sometimes just sitting out there waiting for the prey to land.

You are a long time member of our community. However, it €™s obvious by your below message that you don €™t support our community and the work that we do to provide a free forum and social community for you to post on. Moreover, many of your posts provide potentially dangerous advice as you often over-promote the benefits of FUE while blatantly dismissing the benefits FUT can provide the majority of patients. Thus, I think it €™d be best if we part our separate ways.
 
topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
These guys will have 1.3 mm punches used on their heads, no one will tell them and no one will save them. They will be the next batch of repair patients and the cycle will continue.

Nevermind me I'm just talking to myself [):h::
 
bullitnut

bullitnut

4 awesome repairs with SMG
topccat29 wrote:
.

Moreover, many of your posts provide potentially dangerous advice as you often over-promote the benefits of FUE while blatantly dismissing the benefits FUT can provide the majority of patients.



I don't get this. Are they saying FUE is not good on there? If you have had a successful repair with FUE then obviously you will promote this procedure.

Shiny

 
topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
Shinytop this it is going back a couple of years now. They did not really have much in the way of doctors doing FUE that sponsored that site so my message was a threat regardless of if it helped others. But now a few years later they have more FUE sponsors so their message has changed completely and that my friend is how it works. Can that forum now be trusted, no.

I €™m not trying to beat a dead horse here but many that come to the forums just don €™t understand, they need to find out for themselves and trust no one including myself. Is anyone warning prospective patients about the amount of damage they will suffer from the robot using 1.3mm punch? Why, because this is a business and people need to make money and you can €™t make money talking about the bad stuff. Now does that pigment from SMP build up in the lymph nodes, no one is saying it does so does that mean that it doesn €™t or are they just trying to sell you something? Always investigate thoroughly and appreciate the thoughts others bring up.
 
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Prohairclinic

Prohairclinic

Prohairclinic Scalp Micro Pigmentation
I agree with topcat, Some forums are about ‚¬ ‚¬ ‚¬

I remember that prohairclinic, one of The forst HT fulltime fue institute worldwide n was tolerated At first.
But then, about 10 years ago most weer still doing strip only.
Als we where seen as à thread after producing great fue results on a consistant base we where not welcome anymore.
 
topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
Yes that is what I €™m trying to get across information is the biggest threat to most. Never discourage anyone from posting as one can never have too much information. Many would like to just keep others in the dark.

Every repair patient I have spoken to has always told me the same thing. If I was only given the information I would have made a different choice and they would have gladly lost the money spent not to have to go through the emotional turmoil and the consequences it has had on their life.

Yippee ki yay €¦ €¦lol €¦ €¦
 
topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
What we can learn about some of the most notorious psychopaths in history is that they follow very distinct patterns. Gacy with the clown suit and Bundy with the fake injuries always garnering compassion of unknowing young ladies. Once those ladies got into the car it was a little too late. Of course the ht industry does not reach those levels but there are patterns that can be picked up over years which are recordable. The most obvious is placing a patient or poster in a consistently defensive position when what they have to say does not suit the marketer €™s position. This is why it is so important to read history and look for clues. Use the forums to connect with people and keep you guard up. READ HISTORY it's all there for you on a few of the forums. Read the back and forth table tennis of today and compare............do you see it...........do you see the pattern.............read the history and make up your own mind.

The absolute most valuable post ever written on a forum was written by a forum owner Farrell almost 13 years ago. Burn it into your brain daily before reading the forums. What I like about this site HLE is they don €™t have a list. HLH was a very valuable tool for me in researching. If you are a patient regardless of if your procedure turns out good or bad. Write about it and spread the word. It is up to the patients to help each other.

See I'm all about quality, not quantity. The ethical surgeons who understand that I am not here to promote them will benefit at the expense of the ones who think that I, like you, are here to promote them.

My customer is the man in the street who is losing their hair. My loyalties are to them. Because of my stance people prefer my site to yours because they know where my interests lie. You are too short sighted to realize that the real money is in the hands of the patients, not the doctors. I have been able to make doctors incredibly successful who do good work and have the patients best interest at heart.

This site will never be run along the lines of your ***********. I don't beleive its a successful long term model. You cannot play consumer advocate and transplant marketer at the same time There's a good saying that goes: "You can't have your ass on two chairs"

I am consistent in my beliefs and while some doctors have disagreed with me, they have always respected me. I stood my ground to people who have sent me lawyers letters in the past, and they still wanted to support this site.



 
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JoeTillman

JoeTillman

Valued member
There is a good message here; look for hypocrisy. I agree, kind of like when someone talks down about medical tourism and going to Turkey for a hair transplant as a concept but has no problem operating a dental tourism website to send people to their bed & breakfast in Macedonia while combining the trip with dirt cheap dental work.

Lists are a funny thing. You talk about lists as if they are naturally something to be shunned yet Dr. Bisanga, your favorite doctor, is a member of most every list you detest. This could be viewed from three different angles. What does this say about Dr. Bisanga? What does this say about lists? What does this say about you? I have an idea on each.


What this says about Dr. Bisanga is that he's a quality doctor that has a rightful place on these lists and pays the appropriate funds for inclusion on these lists. Done and done.


What this says about lists is that one must have a bit of common sense when reviewing these lists and see them for what they are as each list has their own set of guidelines to consider. One list I know of goes out of its way to inform people that it acknowledges and encourages the idea that their list is not the end all be all of lists and that one must do their own research to find the clinic that is right for them. Just because you don €™t agree with some of the names that are listed doesn €™t mean they aren €™t worth considering by others.


What this says about you is that you have this romantic idea that if someone is doing something different than the others then it must be the better way. This is something that you think you can relate to because you too do things a different way. God bless you for it. However, your ego and sense of self importance doesn't allow you to consider that other ideas may be just as good as your own or even better depending on the situation. You have no problem critiquing others, calling people scumbags and such but you never look inward and realize that you are no different than those that you criticize. You have your own list, that includes a doctor that has been disciplined for violating medical ethics and self prescribing narcotics AND was diagnosed as having, as one court appointed reviewer put it, "...narcissistic personality traits being a grandiose sense of his self importance...". The reviewer was also a doctor but not a hair transplant doctor. You once said that if you were ever a hair transplant doctor you would imagine being just like this doctor.

You once asked me if it bothered me to see posters recommending clinics that they have no experience with. You €™ve never been to any doctor that you hold in high esteem in your personal list and recommend except of course for Dr. Bisanga yet you continue to extol the virtues of those you admire but have yet to ever meet so what makes YOUR list, much less your opinin, so much better than that of anyone else?


Finally, what you may not realize is that your praise of HLE not having a list is incorrect. Hairloss Experiences has a list of 23 doctors/clinics, each shown at the bottom of every page with their respective logos. These doctors/clinics are not simply advertisers, as HLE does not accept just anyone. The same goes for the other forum you mentioned, as it is not a cut and dry advertising platform as you claim. There are some clinics that cannot pay to advertise there, same as here, so this proves that there is a vetting process of some sort thereby discrediting your position, and praise, entirely. I also think you owe HLE an apology for using it as a soapbox for your praise of another forum. Your tiny comment of praise about HLE not having a list was nothing more than a red herring, and an incorrect one at that, so you can promote your favourite forum above this one, which has been one of your more recent patterns. What €™s unfortunate is that when you €™re on that forum you only refer to HLE as €œthat other forum €. Double standard much?



 
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topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
The pattern is always the same. Check out some of the other forums and research the history going back at least 10+ years. The only difference are the names of the patients or posters everything else it just about the same. Maybe next it will be you and that is why I suggest staying away from the idea of hair transplantation. It €™s a very limited procedure and these are the type of people you too often are dealing with €¦ €¦ €¦ €¦very sad.

What we can learn about some of the most notorious psychopaths in history is that they follow very distinct patterns. Gacy with the clown suit and Bundy with the fake injuries always garnering compassion of unknowing young ladies. Once those ladies got into the car it was a little too late. Of course the ht industry does not reach those levels but there are patterns that can be picked up over years which are recordable. The most obvious is placing a patient or poster in a consistently defensive position when what they have to say does not suit the marketer €™s position. This is why it is so important to read history and look for clues. Use the forums to connect with people and keep you guard up. READ HISTORY it's all there for you on a few of the forums. Read the back and forth table tennis of today and compare............do you see it...........do you see the pattern.............read the history and make up your own mind.

The absolute most valuable post ever written on a forum was written by a forum owner Farrell almost 13 years ago. Burn it into your brain daily before reading the forums. What I like about this site HLE is they don €™t have a list. HLH was a very valuable tool for me in researching. If you are a patient regardless of if your procedure turns out good or bad. Write about it and spread the word. It is up to the patients to help each other.

See I'm all about quality, not quantity. The ethical surgeons who understand that I am not here to promote them will benefit at the expense of the ones who think that I, like you, are here to promote them.

My customer is the man in the street who is losing their hair. My loyalties are to them. Because of my stance people prefer my site to yours because they know where my interests lie. You are too short sighted to realize that the real money is in the hands of the patients, not the doctors. I have been able to make doctors incredibly successful who do good work and have the patients best interest at heart.

This site will never be run along the lines of your ***********. I don't beleive its a successful long term model. You cannot play consumer advocate and transplant marketer at the same time There's a good saying that goes: "You can't have your ass on two chairs"

I am consistent in my beliefs and while some doctors have disagreed with me, they have always respected me. I stood my ground to people who have sent me lawyers letters in the past, and they still wanted to support this site.

 
JoeTillman

JoeTillman

Valued member
The absolute most valuable post ever written on a forum was written by a forum owner Farrell almost 13 years ago
13 years ago.
I don't beleive its a successful long term model. You cannot play consumer advocate and transplant marketer at the same time There's a good saying that goes: "You can't have your ass on two chairs.
[/b]
I don't beleive its a successful long term model.
[/b]
I don't beleive its a successful long term model.
[/b]
Spoken 13 years ago. How many years must a (business) model be in existence before it is considered to be a success?
 
topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
Good advice stands the test of time. If you are researching simply use the search button on sites such as HTN and HLH and you will learn much of what is required. Notice the patterns and compare.

Circa 2003 You cannot play consumer advocate and transplant marketer at the same time There's a good saying that goes: "You can't have your ass on two chairs"[/b]
 
JoeTillman

JoeTillman

Valued member
I don't beleive its a successful long term model. You cannot play consumer advocate and transplant marketer at the same time
I think it would be incredibly valuable for everyone if you would simply have a discussion instead of repeating the same thing over and over in response to my posts. You're like a parrot.

If you believe the statement quoted above then why are the very forums that operate in such a manner still apparently doing well? In fact, every forum out there that has any doctors that participate in any way has some sort of advocacy in place in that they either don't allow just anyone on the forum, even with advertising dollars OR they help to promote the clinic members through various means, such as newsletters and various "awards" or a combination of both.

The statement above may have been made 13 years ago but at that time at least two of the forums were already in operation for about five years so we're looking at a business model that is nearly 20 years old. Each forum is still in operation, generating revenue and some newer forums have sprung up including this one which is also obviously doing well being nearly ten years old. How is this not successful? And please, for once, just answer the question. If you don't, it must mean you can't as this is your third opportunity.
 
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