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lfaich_81
Member
looks like excellent results. One of the things I have wondered about for many years is how does SMP work for grey hair, and also can it work for longer hair. Both questions answered here!
James
Vinci Hair Clinic Prague
Thank you silverfox for taking the time to come online and clear this up.
Your result looks great. Nice to see people with grey hair utilising SMP, seems a great alternative to a hair transplant to reduce the contrast between skin tone and hair colour.
Your result looks great. Nice to see people with grey hair utilising SMP, seems a great alternative to a hair transplant to reduce the contrast between skin tone and hair colour.
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topccat29
29 year HT veteran
Silverfox nice to hear you are happy.
The question was in regards to the original before and after photos and not so much on what it looks like today.
Are you saying that the photos presented by the clinic are the actual before/after photos taken by a camera at different times and not altered in any way?
Each and every hair is in exactly in the same position. Now if the various SMP artists who visit this forum are willing to say that this is possible then maybe that is the case it just seems strange.
Matt...Nicole.........HIS hair................please respond as I'm sure you read this section.
The question was in regards to the original before and after photos and not so much on what it looks like today.
Are you saying that the photos presented by the clinic are the actual before/after photos taken by a camera at different times and not altered in any way?
Each and every hair is in exactly in the same position. Now if the various SMP artists who visit this forum are willing to say that this is possible then maybe that is the case it just seems strange.
Matt...Nicole.........HIS hair................please respond as I'm sure you read this section.
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Baldy Bunnet
Valued member
Hey silver fox. Thanks for posting. Any chance of a photo taken at the same angle as the originals. You could slightly see your face in those but in the new ones we can't so there is not way to prove it's even the same person.
Whether you've had SMP or not I really can't see any hair loss at all to be honest
Whether you've had SMP or not I really can't see any hair loss at all to be honest
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SMPLooks
Member
When I perform SMP into thinning hair the immediate before and afters look nothing alike. The reason is that after performing SMP we rub the area with a liquid vasoconstrictor. Then we use a cleansing solution to clean away the vasoconstrictor and any excess pigment. As a result the client's hair is quite messy until he styles it.
After viewing these B&As I thought the only way this could be a true representation is if the excess pigment was not wiped away, which silver fox seems to confirm. I am not privy to the new shading technique that Da Vinci uses so it is certainly possible that the clinic's original before and afters are legit (un-photoshopped). The problem then is that the original B&As are not a true representation of the final product. However, the pictures that silver fox posted do look quite good.
After viewing these B&As I thought the only way this could be a true representation is if the excess pigment was not wiped away, which silver fox seems to confirm. I am not privy to the new shading technique that Da Vinci uses so it is certainly possible that the clinic's original before and afters are legit (un-photoshopped). The problem then is that the original B&As are not a true representation of the final product. However, the pictures that silver fox posted do look quite good.
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topccat29
29 year HT veteran
SMP we are probably looking at 30,000 hairs and not one of them moved?
LOL.................okay maybe that's possible. I'm not sure what the odds on that are but I would have laid some money on at least 1 of the hairs moving..............seems like it would have been a good bet.
LOL.................okay maybe that's possible. I'm not sure what the odds on that are but I would have laid some money on at least 1 of the hairs moving..............seems like it would have been a good bet.
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IanD
Valued member
This looks even more suspicious than the original. The photos posted are of someone with much much thicker hair - you can't even see the SMP dots for hair. If you had that much hair in the first place then there's absolutely no way the person would need Scalp Pigmentation.
These are either a different person or concealers have been used.
And none of this explains why a single hair in the before and afters havent moved in the slightest bit.
These are either a different person or concealers have been used.
And none of this explains why a single hair in the before and afters havent moved in the slightest bit.
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salvar
Valued member
Now we have a conspiracy theory that there is a different person in the new after shots, did you expect the guy to keep his hair exactly the same a year later?
When applying shading (magnum needles) we do not wipe the pigment constantly like you do with a normal "dot" SMP technique because you open the skin differently and you cant see as easily what areas have been done.
I think Silvefox has confirmed what I expected that he was wearing stronger styling aids hence how similar the hair looks on the before and after photos.
When applying shading (magnum needles) we do not wipe the pigment constantly like you do with a normal "dot" SMP technique because you open the skin differently and you cant see as easily what areas have been done.
I think Silvefox has confirmed what I expected that he was wearing stronger styling aids hence how similar the hair looks on the before and after photos.
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silverfox
Valued member
@baldybunnet .. I will take an image tonight and post so you can see my face/shoulders so then you can have a little trust and believe it was me.. Although I wont be sporting my shirt and tie on a Sat night lol.. Shall I hold up todays newspaper also so you know its today 
, just kidding.. its just this thread is getting out of hand thought i would lighten the mood a little.
@topcat .. My hair was styled using bedhead hair spray ontop of brylcream gel. I usually do this to keep it firm, I knew i couldnt wash my hair for 4 days so thats the reason i went a little heavy on the spray. The images before and after that Salvar has posted are original, looking at vincis work i doubt they would need to photoshop? The images i have posted clearly show my result months on from the treatment, all be in my hair is a little shorter that it was(style change, thats not photoshop either lol) Its a bit of a compliment for Vinci if you guys think the images have been photoshop'd lol.
IanD .. It's me in all the pictures lol.. god! conspiracy theories are growing from the trees now.. I'll maybe even dig out my shirt from the washing and stick in on with my tie to put your mind at rest lol.. Again my hair looks thicker due to the MSP
Happy Saturday folks! Enjoy the last few days of the holidays before back to work
, just kidding.. its just this thread is getting out of hand thought i would lighten the mood a little. @topcat .. My hair was styled using bedhead hair spray ontop of brylcream gel. I usually do this to keep it firm, I knew i couldnt wash my hair for 4 days so thats the reason i went a little heavy on the spray. The images before and after that Salvar has posted are original, looking at vincis work i doubt they would need to photoshop? The images i have posted clearly show my result months on from the treatment, all be in my hair is a little shorter that it was(style change, thats not photoshop either lol) Its a bit of a compliment for Vinci if you guys think the images have been photoshop'd lol.
IanD .. It's me in all the pictures lol.. god! conspiracy theories are growing from the trees now.. I'll maybe even dig out my shirt from the washing and stick in on with my tie to put your mind at rest lol.. Again my hair looks thicker due to the MSP
Happy Saturday folks! Enjoy the last few days of the holidays before back to work
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hairhair98
Valued member
salvar wrote:
First of all, thanks to silverfox for being so accommodating here, in helping to clear this issue up. Much appreciated.
Salvar, you're tone has been somewhat detrimental to your message here at times. Vinci may do good work, but they are not above critique, no company is.
If you had talked about Vincis 'non-wiping' method of application from the beginning, you could have avoided a lot of the suspicion that grew. Instead, you basically ignored the undisturbed hair issue, and then tried to diminish the suspicion by dismissively calling people 'know it alls'.
His hair isn't 'similar', as you described above, it's exactly the same in each shot. The new photos that were posted DO look like a different person, because of the angles - the hair is similar, but the bodies look different.
(note - Thanks to silverfox's cooperation, i believe both of these issues are going to be resolved shortly, if they aren't already.)
Those are both completely valid observations, especially in an industry that is rife with deception. I understand that it is normal to feel offended when others accuse your company of trickery... but it would go a lot smoother if you would address the accusations head on and without a dismissive attitude.
Heck, you could have even taken this opportunity to promote Vincis ability to apply pigment without requiring clients to shave, or even to disturb their hair... which is a very impressive technique... but instead we ended up reading about FTC laws.
Something to think about in the future.
First of all, thanks to silverfox for being so accommodating here, in helping to clear this issue up. Much appreciated.
Salvar, you're tone has been somewhat detrimental to your message here at times. Vinci may do good work, but they are not above critique, no company is.
If you had talked about Vincis 'non-wiping' method of application from the beginning, you could have avoided a lot of the suspicion that grew. Instead, you basically ignored the undisturbed hair issue, and then tried to diminish the suspicion by dismissively calling people 'know it alls'.
His hair isn't 'similar', as you described above, it's exactly the same in each shot. The new photos that were posted DO look like a different person, because of the angles - the hair is similar, but the bodies look different.
(note - Thanks to silverfox's cooperation, i believe both of these issues are going to be resolved shortly, if they aren't already.)
Those are both completely valid observations, especially in an industry that is rife with deception. I understand that it is normal to feel offended when others accuse your company of trickery... but it would go a lot smoother if you would address the accusations head on and without a dismissive attitude.
Heck, you could have even taken this opportunity to promote Vincis ability to apply pigment without requiring clients to shave, or even to disturb their hair... which is a very impressive technique... but instead we ended up reading about FTC laws.
Something to think about in the future.
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salvar
Valued member
hairhair98 thank you for your comments, I do not believe we are above criticism and maybe I was getting slightly annoyed and that tone was coming through, it was not my intention to be condescending in my replies.
I tried to answer the hair issue as I can but as I stated from the beginning I didnt take the shots, I wasnt present when the sessions was done and I dont know the patient personally so I have tried to give all the information I have at hand as well as I can.
I did mention our shadowing technique very early in this thread and some other keen observer mentioned that he might have styling aids in his hair to maintain it, all of this has now been confirmed by the patient himself.
If Silverfox pots some more photos showing that he is in deed the person in all photos I think that would be helpful so this thread can be put to rest.
I tried to answer the hair issue as I can but as I stated from the beginning I didnt take the shots, I wasnt present when the sessions was done and I dont know the patient personally so I have tried to give all the information I have at hand as well as I can.
I did mention our shadowing technique very early in this thread and some other keen observer mentioned that he might have styling aids in his hair to maintain it, all of this has now been confirmed by the patient himself.
If Silverfox pots some more photos showing that he is in deed the person in all photos I think that would be helpful so this thread can be put to rest.
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hairhair98
Valued member
salvar wrote:
Being that it is a different style of needle, there is no wiping required, and if the client has firm styling products in place, i can see how the treatment could be applied without disturbing the hair, if the practitioner was very careful. Seems like a great option for those who dont want to spend the recovery period with unstyled hair.
Completely understandable. Thanks for your time that you spend here on the forums, it is very helpful to those researching SMP.
Yes, looking back now i can see what you were getting at, but at the time i didnt quite understand how it worked. The biggest thing i didnt understand was how wiping the area wouldnt disturb the hair... but now that i know Vinci can perform this type of SMP without wiping, it makes more sense.
Being that it is a different style of needle, there is no wiping required, and if the client has firm styling products in place, i can see how the treatment could be applied without disturbing the hair, if the practitioner was very careful. Seems like a great option for those who dont want to spend the recovery period with unstyled hair.
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Coopman
Valued member
A great lesson can be learned for anyone researching SMP or HT's by reading this thread.
If something appears to look too good to be true. Always question why that may be the case. In this instance we have a good honest result backed up by the patients participation in this forum.
Silverfox im glad you are happy with your treatment. Your hair looks much healthier when its dry. I have a friend with a similar hairloss pattern to you. When he sports a wet look it looks quite diffuse and like yourself when its dry there is no obvious hairloss.
Salvar. Would be good to have an insight into the type of treatment Silverfox has had and how it slightly differs from the standard SMP? What I mean is how does it differ from rubbing Courve onto your scalp if the patient has existing hair.
If something appears to look too good to be true. Always question why that may be the case. In this instance we have a good honest result backed up by the patients participation in this forum.
Silverfox im glad you are happy with your treatment. Your hair looks much healthier when its dry. I have a friend with a similar hairloss pattern to you. When he sports a wet look it looks quite diffuse and like yourself when its dry there is no obvious hairloss.
Salvar. Would be good to have an insight into the type of treatment Silverfox has had and how it slightly differs from the standard SMP? What I mean is how does it differ from rubbing Courve onto your scalp if the patient has existing hair.
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Coopman
Valued member
A great lesson can be learned for anyone researching SMP or HT's by reading this thread.
If something appears to look too good to be true. Always question why that may be the case. In this instance we have a good honest result backed up by the patients participation in this forum.
Silverfox im glad you are happy with your treatment. Your hair looks much healthier when its dry. I have a friend with a similar hairloss pattern to you. When he sports a wet look it looks quite diffuse and like yourself when its dry there is no obvious hairloss.
Salvar. Would be good to have an insight into the type of treatment Silverfox has had and how it slightly differs from the standard SMP? What I mean is how does it differ from rubbing Courve onto your scalp if the patient has existing hair.
If something appears to look too good to be true. Always question why that may be the case. In this instance we have a good honest result backed up by the patients participation in this forum.
Silverfox im glad you are happy with your treatment. Your hair looks much healthier when its dry. I have a friend with a similar hairloss pattern to you. When he sports a wet look it looks quite diffuse and like yourself when its dry there is no obvious hairloss.
Salvar. Would be good to have an insight into the type of treatment Silverfox has had and how it slightly differs from the standard SMP? What I mean is how does it differ from rubbing Courve onto your scalp if the patient has existing hair.
salvar
Valued member
Copman, we have two basic treatments, the typical shaved look done with dot type needles, these are best to create the look of shaved hair on bald scalp. Many clinic (including us) also sometimes also used to add density in between longer hair but its a very slow technique that way and often allot of sessions are needed to get the desired effect. This type of needle is what most people will know and have seen allot of results from on this forum and elsewhere.
We also have brush type needle, called a magnum needle, this is what tattoo artists use to add colour into an design or image after the outlines are done with a round needle, its like a brush of needles and is applied to the scalp a bit like a paint brush on top of a canvas. This is a very tricky technique on the scalp and we have found that those with sensitive scalp often bleed easily so its not for everyone. The big advance of this technique is that it can create more a block effect rather then the dots, this is in deed very much like having permanent Courve on your scalp. Its also trickier to evaluate who is a good candidate for this, we would not apply to this to a young guy thats just starting to thin and is likely to go bald so we only use this for women, guys that have mostly transplanted hair left and want more density or those without a family pattern of thinning and not complete balding.
We also have brush type needle, called a magnum needle, this is what tattoo artists use to add colour into an design or image after the outlines are done with a round needle, its like a brush of needles and is applied to the scalp a bit like a paint brush on top of a canvas. This is a very tricky technique on the scalp and we have found that those with sensitive scalp often bleed easily so its not for everyone. The big advance of this technique is that it can create more a block effect rather then the dots, this is in deed very much like having permanent Courve on your scalp. Its also trickier to evaluate who is a good candidate for this, we would not apply to this to a young guy thats just starting to thin and is likely to go bald so we only use this for women, guys that have mostly transplanted hair left and want more density or those without a family pattern of thinning and not complete balding.
bullitnut
4 awesome repairs with SMG
Great thread this and i like the fact that Salvar has stuck around and continued posting on the forum...to me that shows he believes in what he is saying and his companies work...to be honest i reckon some clinics would have run a mile at the first sign of criticism or done their very best to get the thread locked fearing for their reputation. He has answered every question and the client has come on and shown how happy he is.
The guys happiness is the main thing in my book and nobody has any real evidence to doubt hes not genuine. I like Salvar's ethics regarding only doing this type of treatment on specific types of people too.
Just my opinion
The guys happiness is the main thing in my book and nobody has any real evidence to doubt hes not genuine. I like Salvar's ethics regarding only doing this type of treatment on specific types of people too.
Just my opinion
topccat29
29 year HT veteran
Salvar we have to have these types of discussions as it shows those new to researching that the forum is honest which makes choosing a doctor spoken about here in all probabilities a better choice. It is when there is no debate, requests for proof and endless questioning and commenting of the industry on a forum that one should take heed.
I recently read a quote by another forum owner that stated he has learned to use a lighter hand and to let the conversation just flow and judging by web analytics this particular site in ranked at the top in the US market. One can also see growth in this forum too as it s follows a similar style. On the other hand the forums that are heavy handed in their moderation are ranked very, very low as readers generally figure out when the conversation is only going one way it s probably not a safe place to be and numbers do not lie. One only needs to look those numbers up to understand the effect.
Honest clinics I m sure appreciate the forums with the most debate as there is always a logical answer to any question and one should never be offended by a question. Salvar I m sure you appreciate the grilling.
In my opinion honest people should be able to make as much money as humanly possible............they deserve it and those that are not honest should be exposed as much as possible.
I recently read a quote by another forum owner that stated he has learned to use a lighter hand and to let the conversation just flow and judging by web analytics this particular site in ranked at the top in the US market. One can also see growth in this forum too as it s follows a similar style. On the other hand the forums that are heavy handed in their moderation are ranked very, very low as readers generally figure out when the conversation is only going one way it s probably not a safe place to be and numbers do not lie. One only needs to look those numbers up to understand the effect.
Honest clinics I m sure appreciate the forums with the most debate as there is always a logical answer to any question and one should never be offended by a question. Salvar I m sure you appreciate the grilling.
In my opinion honest people should be able to make as much money as humanly possible............they deserve it and those that are not honest should be exposed as much as possible.
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silverfox
Valued member
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silverfox
Valued member
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