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ACell = Hair Cloning and the End of "Limited Donor" Concerns

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ejj

member
Dr Rassman refered to plucking as " complete failure " , Im awaiting Dr Bernstiens views on donor healing but expect much the same .

I would be more concerned of ` possible ` damage with any new and unproven treatment that may leave you in a worse place than when you started , and looking at several repairs over a number of years ,not to mention the costs involved... on getting back to the position you were in ,before you agreed to be part of a `trial `

I can understand you wanting to improve your situation , and if the work is free, and there are no travel costs, i understand moreso , however i would probably wait this one out . The new technology i found that worked for me was beard hair grafting into my scar , i think that this will become standard practice in time , yes we are all in the same boat with repair and most importantly , we need to know what works, and what doesnt work ,

I wish you all the best with your repair

ejj
 
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pvtpoint2010

Valued member
Topcat ive been a member of several other sites since i think 2000 or 2002 not sure exactly but close to 10 years.....Ive seen the same Bull-s-it technology come and go just as you.....

Hair loss help is one site ive been on since 2000

beard hair IMO will leave bald spots on your face and potential scaring.......especially if you do not have a mega thick beard....

id be more afraid of touching my face to add hair in a scar .........in that case id rather use body hair from a non viewable area ......

but everyone is different .........Cole told me most people do not develop white dots ....I did....

so its on to plan B.........try to get more grafts...... 1...hopefully without doing another strip..ie it may an ok situation worst.....2... try NOT to take too many FUE's without thinning the donor so the existing scars become more visible....

I stopped posting for a few months due to nothing new in my case had developed

trust me there are NO RED FLAGS in my case.....

As far as posting my results .......I Wont be taking the photo's .the NY Top doc will..........if he Emails them to me Ill post it/them.....

other then that I even asked on this site if anyone could help with the photos...Cooley did not shave the area...he just plucked out hairs from one side of my donor and planted them in multiple white dots and my lower strip scar.....

oh and punched out 3 tiny fue scars and filled them with Acell ......I wanted to see if it helped with the healing/hypo pigmentation

If it did I have about 60 or so bulls-it HITZIG oval punch plugs in my top 1/3 I want to remove ...

That's more or less it............


 
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pvtpoint2010

Valued member
Topcat ive been a member of several other sites since i think 2000 or 2002 not sure exactly but close to 10 years.....Ive seen the same Bull-s-it technology come and go just as you.....

Hair loss help is one site ive been on since 2000

beard hair IMO will leave bald spots on your face and potential scaring.......especially if you do not have a mega thick beard....

id be more afraid of touching my face to add hair in a scar .........in that case id rather use body hair from a non viewable area ......

but everyone is different .........Cole told me most people do not develop white dots ....I did....

so its on to plan B.........try to get more grafts...... 1...hopefully without doing another strip..ie it may an ok situation worst.....2... try NOT to take too many FUE's without thinning the donor so the existing scars become more visible....

I stopped posting for a few months due to nothing new in my case had developed

trust me there are NO RED FLAGS in my case.....

As far as posting my results .......I Wont be taking the photo's .the NY Top doc will..........if he Emails them to me Ill post it/them.....

other then that I even asked on this site if anyone could help with the photos...Cooley did not shave the area...he just plucked out hairs from one side of my donor and planted them in multiple white dots and my lower strip scar.....

oh and punched out 3 tiny fue scars and filled them with Acell ......I wanted to see if it helped with the healing/hypo pigmentation

If it did I have about 60 or so bulls-it HITZIG oval punch plugs in my top 1/3 I want to remove ...

That's more or less it............


 
topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
Pvtpoint I always appreciate an honest answer. My opinion so far is plucking is a complete failure and is being used to draw guys in that are desperate and willing to open up their wallet. Acell €™s results are dubious at best as clinics the very ones in position to be able to take photographs have provided zero in which anything substantial can be seen.

My guess would be that Cole told many patients they would not develop white dots but judging from those patients that I did speak with personally that was not the case. My opinion is the punch that was being used from the description I was given was too large and although it may have made extracting grafts easier it surely did not benefit the patient. No different than the clinics using drills. I believe the use of drills does not benefit the patient in any way but it €™s a real money maker for the clinic. Mega sessions also do not benefit the patient but once again they are real money makers.

I have had both beard and chest hair extracted but the punch was very small approximately .75-.85 I have absolutely no visible scarring on my face or body. I provide photographic evidence on a monthly basis. The pictures are under extreme lighting conditions and my skin has also been exposed to the sun and is several shades darker. So yes it can be done when it done by someone who is competent and more importantly has ethics.

Nothing personal here I just choose to state the facts the way I see them. I am always open to changing my view when substantial evidence is presented.
 
topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
I am always trying to understand what motivates someone to post a message and this is why I ask questions. Some postings to me have no substance such as €œyes, that €™s my doc € and their equivalent they are meaningless. But your postings draw my attention and I ask questions and make statements to learn more.

During each and every consultation that I had during my search for the right repair doctor one of the first questions I asked was is it going to be a problem for me to post a detailed progress report along with the details of my experience. What most don €™t understand is that I update my progress mostly for me and others in need of repair or just interested in learning more. I do my best to provide as many details and up close pictures as possible. Most clinics didn €™t seem to have a problem with it. But there were a few that I sensed considered it a problem. I sensed they felt I was a little too vocal and a very high risk for someone who didn €™t have the confidence in their ethics or skills. As I watch those clinics I see most of the results are submitted by the clinic itself which is a giant red flag. So when you state you need to ask the doctor if you can post pictures of your own progress that to me is a giant red flag. Maybe you see it otherwise but I strongly disagree.
 
E

ejj

member
my red flag was a dr , offering me a repair , with a drill / punch / that he had used once ...to extract facial / beard grafts on..... one patient!

This made me realise what was important drs reputation, or my welfare ! however i then sought advice from those who had been in similar situations , I can honestly say there are only 2 drs who I would let touch my face and head , acell i think will be pretty much fruitless ... but hey were moving on now to replicel .......

sometimes the best thing to do is nothing ....

regards

ejj
 
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pvtpoint2010

Valued member
Ok Just got back from top doc Bernstein for my 1 year plucking update with Dr Cooley.....

After finally looking at the scar for myself today Both Bernstein nor I were able to come to a definite conclusion

Ill try to send the before and after pictures for you all to help with the verdict...


 

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pvtpoint2010

Valued member
After 1 year..
 

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pvtpoint2010

Valued member
befor a different angle
 

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pvtpoint2010

Valued member
Its a shame as I'm actually very disappointed in the Acell Plucking results from my test.....

So maybe it WAS just false hope after all............However I needed to find out for myself .....

The people who saw the hairs growing in the scar ( barber, girl friend) in my opinion were just seeing what was already there before the test.....

After looking at the 1 year result for myself its obvious it was not too impresive




 
topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
Pvtpoint those are excellent pictures.

Here is the sad part. Cooley now states that it doesn €™t work well in scar tissue how convenient. It would be nice if he would show a few pictures of it growing in non scar tissue instead of still hawking this procedure as some kind of miracle to unsuspecting dupes.

The bottom line is this industry has a very long history of hyping complete bullsh*t with absolutely no proof and taking people €™s money. It €™s also why we have an FTC and many across various industries end up in jail.

This procedure using Acell and plucking is very simple to prove yet it has not been done. Same goes for the healing characteristics. It is very simple to prove but it has not been done either. It €™s easier to just say the healing really seems to have sped up and have everyone believe it.
 
topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
When one understands the numbers in this business one also understands how ethics an go out the window and greed rears it's ugly head. Look at just this one example out of hundreds. That's right $100 million worth of product. Is Acell the next Helsinski Formula, I don't know but how about showing us some real proof.

The Federal Trade Commission has agreed to a final stipulated judgment and permanent injunction that brings to a close its pending lawsuit against Pantron I Corporation and its owner, Hal Z. Lederman. According to the FTC, Pantron and Lederman were pioneers of the program-length commercial or "infomercial." Between 1985 and 1990, they sold $100 million worth of a purported baldness cure, the "Helsinki Formula," through the widely disseminated "Discover with Robert Vaughan" infomercial. The proposed settlement prohibits the defendants from representing that the "Helsinki Formula" products will cure or prevent baldness.

The FTC filed suit against Pantron and Lederman in November 1988, alleging that the advertising claims the defendants created and disseminated falsely represented that the "Helsinki Formula" was effective in stopping hair loss and promoting hair regrowth in persons suffering from baldness. The complaint also alleged that the defendants falsely represented that the effectiveness of the "Helsinki Formula" was scientifically proven.

The case was tried in a five-day bench trial in late 1989 before the late Judge Richard A. Gadbois of the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California. In 1992, the court entered an injunction barring the defendants from representing that scientific evidence established that the "Helsinki Formula" was effective. The court allowed the defendants to represent that the Helsinki Formula was the subject of medical investigative work by responsible European physicians, and that the product was effective to some extent for some people. The court denied the FTC's request for consumer redress. The Commission appealed the district court's decision. In 1994, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals remanded the case to the district court with instructions to modify the injunction consistent with its holding that the efficacy claims for the "Helsinki Formula" were false, and to order the defendants to pay monetary relief.

The settlement announced today resolves the matter of monetary equitable relief by providing that the FTC on behalf of injured consumers will receive a pro-rata share of the proceeds of Lederman €™s Chapter 7 bankruptcy. (Lederman filed bankruptcy in 1994.) Pursuant to a separate agreement, the Bankruptcy Court for the Central District of California entered an order on January 27, 1997, allowing the FTC €™s claim for $27,000,000 against Lederman. As a result the Commission will receive approximately 80 percent of the distributions from the Lederman bankruptcy liquidation. (The Commission is unable to determine exactly how much will be available for redress from the bankruptcy proceeding.) Pantron I went out of business in October 1995.

The settlement agreement is consistent with the Court of Appeals' opinion that the advertising claims for the "Helsinki Formula" products were false. Under the terms of the agreement, the defendants are prohibited from claiming that the "Helsinki Formula" or any other baldness product is effective in curtailing hair loss, promoting regrowth of lost hair, or treating baldness, unless such claims would be permitted in labeling for such products by the Food and Drug Administration. In addition, the defendants are prohibited from representing that competent and reliable tests or studies establish the effectiveness of the "Helsinki Formula" or any other baldness product.

Moreover, the settlement agreement prohibits the defendants from making any representation regarding the performance, benefits, safety or efficacy of any food, drug, device or cosmetic unless they possess and rely upon competent and reliable scientific evidence to substantiate the representation.

Further, the settlement addresses two advertising techniques commonly employed by infomercial producers, the endorsement and the demonstration. First, the defendants are prohibited from representing that an endorsement reflects the typical or ordinary experience of persons using the advertised product, unless the claimed results have been established by competent and reliable scientific evidence. Second, the defendants are prohibited from using demonstrations that involve the undisclosed alteration of the product, or models or props used in the demonstration, or the undisclosed use or substitution of another product or device to demonstrate the results claimed for the advertised product.

The case was handled by the FTC's Seattle Regional Office. The Commission vote to authorize filing of the stipulated final judgment and permanent injunction was 5-0. The proposed agreement was filed in the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California, on February 11, 1997. It is subject to court approval.
 
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pvtpoint2010

Valued member
In my opinion Cooley really does/did believe in Acell's potential to re grow a follicle he did my test for free........I did too after reading about it .....I still do but now only to an extent..

For me it was never about growing more hair anyway my main goal was to see how skin heals using it after surgery......

this was also inconclusive in the test......

Dr Cooley wanted to prove to me first that it did in fact work before i paid which i think was very ethical ......
 
topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
I agree that was ethical of him but what about the patient's that did pay?
 
Bigmac

Bigmac

Administrator
Staff member
Sorry to hear its not been a success in your case Pvt.

I also would like to see a proper study carried out documenting a number of patients progress or non progress.

Bm.
 
G

Galileo

member
topccat29 wrote:
I am always trying to understand what motivates someone to post a message and this is why I ask questions. Some postings to me have no substance ...

In this case, I strongly recommend you stop posting because your load of useless posts have a) absolutely no substance and b) readers could consider your posting behaviour rather as some kind of psychotherapy or something.
 
topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran


Galieo I €™m sorry you feel that way. My advice is the same as it has always been in the past. It €™s always easier to just skip over postings by those that one feels are just a waste of time. I do it all the time.

One does have to wonder why a doctor would come on to a message forum to post about a new type of procedure or a new adjunct where he didn €™t even have substantial evidence that it worked. Most do not ask this question and are more concerned about when they can try it. I €™m sure the patients that paid would have something different to say.

I also understand the sensitive nature of asking for proof. When it is not available the normal reaction is to become defensive. Same with asking questions where there is no logical answer it's easier to become defensive. So for others when reseraching and asking questions especially of doctors and clinics. If they become defensive it's a red flag in my opinion.



 
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topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
The big problem with the hype of this adjuvant is not the lost money that those who paid and received no improvement or growth experienced. It €™s the patients who ended up much worse off cosmetically in appearance. Who makes those patients whole again?



This is what substance means. If a doctor is going to come on to a forum and start hawking what they have than should have the decency to show some proof that it works and not suck in customers who are desperate with words of hope.



I can also assure you I am very well adjusted but I €™m not the type of person to just sit by while some doctor takes advantage of others for their own financial gain. The ones truly needing psycho therapy are those that come to these forums under the premise of helping people but their real intention is only to help themselves.
 
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