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hair transplantation and sociopathy

H

hairtech

member
We have come so far... This is why Topcat myself and others bring up the dark side of hair transplants. Just so people can be informed.
Here is a picture I found on a website. Obviously there are missing parts to the history line however it gives you a good idea how the industry has changed and where it came from.
 

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topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
Hey I like the chart. What €™s interesting and why I am sometimes very vocal is that Limmer date of 1988. What I find the most bothersome is that many had that information but they were not giving it to me and only giving me what they were selling. I didn €™t need to end up a major repair patient but it wasn €™t in their interest to give me the information.

But nobody can stop me from giving the others information and avoid the bullshit we see going on today.

I like this Will Smith quote as it applies to work regardless of if it is just posting to a message board because I think it €™s important.

€œThe only thing that I see that is distinctly different about me is I'm not afraid to die on a treadmill. I will not be out-worked, period. You might have more talent than me, you might be smarter than me, you might be sexier than me, you might be all of those things you got it on me in nine categories. But if we get on the treadmill together, there's two things: You're getting off first, or I'm going to die. It's really that simple, right?
 
topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
You see here is the thing €¦ €¦ €¦ €¦ €¦.it doesn €™t matter if we are talking about micro/mini grafts and hairlifts or tattooing and robots €¦ €¦ €¦..it €™s all second rate crap. If someone wants to go for the second rate crap that is their choice but they should be given the information beforehand that there is a better choice out there regardless of if one offers it or not. I understand we don €™t want to ruffle anyone €™s feathers and that is why the industry doesn €™t really want to say much so I will say it for them. No one can tell you who the bad players are in this industry because if they do they will be sued so each person researching hair transplantation needs to take plenty of time before making a choice. Go back and read the history it will tell you much of what you need to know. Even some of these guys who have made a good choice but have not updated their result realize €¦ €¦ €¦ €¦ wow some of these guys are real scumbags. They thought they knew something but now they realize they didn €™t €¦ €¦ €¦ €¦ €¦all part of learning. In fact we are all learning including me and the more the better.

Saying any of this does not mean I €™m not a nice person or that I €™m not being friendly. As I have stated in the past I can tell somebody that their works looks like shit and we can still be friends. I don €™t mean it in a bad way I mean it like €¦ €¦ €¦ €¦..it looks like shit €¦ €¦ €¦ €¦.you can do better than that €¦ €¦ €¦ €¦..there is a better way. Maybe just stop what you are doing, go back to square one and learn how to do it right or the better way.

I would also add that some of these guys that work in this industry are trying to do good but they have sociopaths that attach themselves to them. Because that is what a sociopath sometimes does. They attach themselves to someone they believe can help them gain more money and power. It happens all the time in fact celebrities are a good example they are magnets for sociopaths.
 
H

hairtech

member
)(_::[):h:: good post topcat.



So here is a picture that I found on the internet showing several approaches to an old school flap procedure... which is now banned in the United States.
 

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topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
Hairtech I think you may be mistaken neither the flap nor the hairlift are banned procedures. In fact I do not believe any type of procedure is banned in hair restoration that revolves around surgically rearranging tissue. Anyone can pretty much do whatever they please with only the market regulating the field keeping most in line and even that is sometimes not possible as complaining about bad cosmetic surgery will only get you sued. It €™s kind of unique in some ways to general medicine where one can gauge the success of a surgery. With cosmetic surgery as long as the doctor thinks it looks good what the patient thinks doesn €™t matter at least for the most part legally speaking. These guys need to be very careful and many just don €™t seem to get it. Of course deceptive advertising or omitting information critical to the decision making process can be pursued in a legal sense. Best to avoid this completely and take one €™s time being fairly certain one has chosen correctly and by all means go as slow as possible with the option of walking away after that first procedure. Once you get your feet wet and feel comfortable then consider a larger procedure if that one's desire. You go slow because there is too much money in hair loss and you really can't trust anyone until your a completely sure. Sure everyone is going to be nice and friendly, it's all sunshine and rainbows. I could easily present myself in the same way as I have worked in an industry well known for hospitality for close to 30 years but I prefer to present the reality because I have seen what can happen.

I met with Toby Mayer and thank God he told me to go away. If I could have just met the right person to help guide me a long time ago when I needed it, someone to just give me some good honest advice to fix the damage that was done to me it would have been so much easier. My own experience is of value so I do my best to share it with others. Most importantly do not be desperate you cannot make a logical decision when you are desperate and the point of the thread, understand something about the person you are dealing with. Who are they as a person and what is important to them in life many seem to miss this aspect of the decision making process.




 
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T

true man

Member
I would also advise the members of the forum when they attend for their consultation to clarify that the surgeon will perform the extraction in case of an FUE hair transplant.Many clinics in UK in order to save costs are allowing hair technicians without any medical or nursing training to perform the extraction in FUE sessions.Doctors are only administer the local anaesthetic and the hair technicians are performing the whole extraction.That is illegal and patients are not getting the quality of services as they should.
I would therefore advise all members to clarify that during consultation and of course when they attend for their procedure.
 
topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
True man I would agree with you. It is completely unacceptable for the nurses or techs to be making the extractions, of course if this is explained beforehand and the patient agrees to this arrangement then that is their choice. I don €™t believe one needs to be a doctor per se but one does need to have extraordinary hand/eye skills and of course being a doctor and having the skills would be the obvious choice. Just my own personal opinion.

I also prefer techs to do the placing. I €™m not impressed by doctors that work at a frantic pace placing grafts regardless of if the outcome is good. I sense too much tension when I'm viewing it and it would not be my preference. Much better to have someone who is relaxed and working at a slower pace placing the grafts.

I am very used to working at a very frantic pace myself taking care of many customers and doing many things at one time. It fits me well as I love the stress and pushing myself, just don €™t think surgery is a good place for it.


True man I am always suspicious of posters with only one post but I will assume you have good intentions.
 
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T

true man

Member
Dear Topccat29
I only have good intentions and i can reassure you about this.I would agree with you that many techs may be more skilled than doctors.
Nevertheless the patient needs to be informed prior to his procedure and also he should negotiate the price in his favor.It is rather misleading to advertise FUE with a doctor and ask a price per graft and not being able to offer this service.
That is really unacceptable.I also agree with you regarding placing the grafts to be performed by hair techs.
 
H

hairtech

member
I agree that the patient should be fully informed about the entire procedure before hand.
 
H

hairtech

member
Topcat,

What every happened to Brandy and the lift. I would assume you would know more than me. Can you give us the history of when it was born and when it died as a procedure. I only have a couple of stories. Here is one:

He performed the first "Brandy Lift" on his brother in law in his garage and without anesthesia. This could be rumor but was told to me by a physician down south. *nl
 
topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
Well there was the one patient that pointed a magnum .357 to his chest and blew a hole in it but survived. He was one the guys that got the fancy new modern procedure called the hairlift. He went on to sue Brandy and won about $500K but there were more lawsuits, at some point I guess one just throws in the towel and admits it €™s not so advanced after all, I €™m sure he made enough money by that point. Too bad so many needed to be harmed or were not given the opportunity to have a procedure which actually was better and could have helped them.

I posted a short PR piece on another thread which was from about 1990 so it was born just before that date. Wish I would have understood the difference between news and a PR piece at that time. Even now guys read these articles out there like they are news €¦ €¦ €¦ €¦..some sort of valuable information €¦ €¦ €¦ €¦ €¦it €™s PR bullshit most of the time they just don €™t know any better.


I believe it died in the late 90's but I don't have the exact date.


Imagine taking a bullet to the chest...............some of these guys better start thinking about the consequences.

To be honest I really don't care too much to speak about these old procedures it's not really important. What is happening today is what is important and much of it is just a repeat of what has happened in the past different procedure some good some bad and different players.

If the hairlift came out today I would post everything I saw wrong with it. Many might think that's being negative when actually it's just being real. Why do so many feel it's okay to sugar coat much of what goes on with bullshit posts. Let's start giving some straight honest advice and cut the crap already.
 
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topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
TV pitchman Kevin Trudeau sentenced to 10 years in prison


The funny thing about Trudeau is the original judgment was ordered by the court simply because it felt that Trudeau €™s book made weight loss sound easy and the judge believed that to be false and misleading information. That seems to be a very low bar when compared to all the misleading and false information there is in the hair transplant industry. How many guys were knowingly misled by forums that actually were working against their best interests by manipulating information through various methods? Those same guys would have made different choices without that manipulation so who bears the liability?

Bad cosmetic surgery is not illegal but false and misleading information as practiced by many of the information providers is very illegal.

Most fraud cases in regards to deceptive marketing result in prison terms of 20+ years. That seems to be the standard so Trudeau actually got off pretty easy as the sentencing was a result of not coming up with the judgment money.




BY ART GOLAB Staff Reporter March 17, 2014 4:36PM









Informercial king Kevin Trudeau pleaded for a light sentence in federal court Monday, claiming he had undergone a €œpersonal transformation € while imprisoned for the last four months since his contempt conviction.



But U.S. District Judge Ronald Guzman wasn €™t buying it and gave Trudeau the sentence prosecutors had asked for: 10 years.


€œHe €™s deceitful to the very core. This type of conduct simply cannot stand, € said Guzman as he handed down the sentence.


In sentencing filings, prosecutors noted his €œbrazen defiance € of federal courts in Chicago for more than a decade, a 30-year pattern of €œfraud and deceit € and a loss of more than $37 million by the consumers who bought his bogus diet book.


Trudeau repeatedly refused to pay a penny of a $37 million court-imposed fine, crying poverty, while appearing to live a lavish lifestyle.


The self-improvement guru addressed the court wearing an orange jumpsuit and slippers instead of the sharp suit of his informercials. He said he spent hours a day €œreading positive, uplifting, inspirational self-improvement books € and said he has completed a home-study course on personal values and integrity.



€œI have been stripped of all ego, arrogance, defiance and pride and for this I am very thankful, as it has made me a better person, € he told the judge. Trudeau also vowed that if he ever does another informercial, €œI promise no embellishment, no puffery. €


The judge, however, noted a litany of previous fraud and contempt charges and convictions cited by prosecutors. €œThat doesn €™t happen by accident. That doesn €™t happen to an ordinary honest person, € Guzman said.


€œHe has treated federal court orders as if they were merely suggestions. ... He has blatantly rejected many opportunities to change his conduct and to show true remorse, not by fancy speeches, but by his actions, € the judge said of Trudeau.



The TV pitchman was expressionless as the sentence was given, but later smiled, shook hands with his attorneys and waved to friends in the courtroom, and he was escorted out.


Trudeau €™s attorney, Tom Kirsch, said he was grateful the judge imposed a sentence 50 percent lower then the high end of the recommended sentencing range in the pre-sentence report. After conferring with Trudeau, Kirsch said he would appeal both the conviction and sentence.


The courtroom was packed with Trudeau €™s supporters. During arguments, one of them, a former congressman from Texas, tried to address the judge. The judge told him to sit down, and he did, but later on he spoke out again and was carried out by federal marshals. Ed Foreman, 80, of Dallas, got a $175 ticket, according to Randall Samborn, a spokesman for the U.S. Attorney €™s office.






 
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topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
I am listening to a doctor who has been in this business for a very long time. He recently acquired a robotic system and states guys that were not candidates for FUE 10 years ago are now candidates with the new technology.

This in my opinion is a horseshit statement as those guys were candidates 10 years ago just not in his hands. I think many of these doctors just rely on some make believe respect without questioning their authority and desperate bald guys will be afraid to question anything which in fact is exactly what happens.

Much better to say I did not have the skill and talent 10 years ago to offer FUE as a procedure but now that I have a robotic system I feel comfortable being able to offer it. It might not be as good as all the talented doctors that were actually performing the procedure for the last 10 years but it €™s better than not being able to offer it at all.
 
topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
Well I would consider stretching the truth to make a profit related. We have a moral obligation to be our brother €™s keeper. Most especially these very young guys who are sometimes too desperate for their own good. We need to help steer them in the right direction so that no harm comes to them.

We need to try and do it in a pleasant and respectful manner but sometimes what one sees happening becomes overwhelming and hard to understand.
 
topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
After reading a recent thread on a different forum of a 19 year old who was given a strip procedure for a very small amount of hair it €™s still always amazing to read the same story over and over again. To begin with a 19 year is hardly an appropriate age for a hair transplant regardless of the situation as it can only lead to greater pain down the line. The patient really wanted fue but since the doctor was not proficient at the procedure strip was recommended instead, not a debate here and as stated the patient does not even qualify as a candidate . The patient asks for the thread not to be deleted and fears that it will be but by the end of the long thread the patient practically begs for the thread to be deleted €¦ €¦ €¦.why does that always happen €¦ €¦ €¦ €¦ €¦ €¦ €¦you dumb young guys out there figure it out.

Can this patient be helped? My view would be that it is very possible that the patient was not in a good mental state to even have surgery to begin with by much of what I read. So if this premise were true would a reputable clinic try to repair the issues the patient now feels has destroyed his life. It could very well be the few reputable clinics out there might not be able to help this person as said the patient might not have been in the right place mentally to have surgery to begin with so there is that justifiable fear and concern of reputable clinics trying to help and in the process causing harm to themselves. So it is very likely that the patient will be left to the wolves but let €™s hope for the best.

Should the thread be deleted. Probably not because those that work in the industry are in a position of superior knowledge. They deal with this day in and day out. They know right from wrong and they know how easily a desperate person can be parted with their money and the younger the person the easier to do. If I were a doctor and running a clinic I would want the post to stand as a reminder that I made a mistake. I need to become better so this does not happen again and become a better judge of a person €™s mental state. Sometimes pain must be endured in order for improvement to be obtained and part of the downside of this industry is most do not want to feel that pain and take responsibility when they themselves have made a bad decision.

And the fact is each and every person that has had a hair transplant that works in this industry in whatever capacity would want this information as part of their research to judge for themselves if they were starting from square one so please give others the same courtesy. Did this patient have unrealistic expectations €¦ €¦ €¦ €¦.. more than likely but that is what educating the patient is all about even if it means turning them away.
 
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topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
Not sure what the doctor was thinking but good for those researching to read.


The kid lists several names in hopes of repair which might not even be warranted as he may be seeing something that is not even there part of what makes a person not a good candidate to begin with just someone in need of a little education. One name he lists cannot be posted which he clearly states but can €™t seem to understand why nor does it seem a concern. Maybe there is a good reason why one doctor on his list can €™t be mentioned but that doesn €™t seem to dawn on the kid and in all likelihood will not be worthy of further investigation. Will he end up in that chair as everyone watches and no one can say a word? Very possible as no one can really tell you who not to go to most especially on a forum €¦ €¦ €¦ €¦..at best one can suggest maybe doing some further research. This is what you need to pay attention to, those words €¦ €¦ €¦.. €you might want to do some more research and get some more opinions € it €™s saying something to you and the best one can offer.

For many young guys just looking at pictures and getting constant encouragement from others is all it takes. I get that as it is hard to resist as a combination of social proof and strong anchors works very well. I don €™t eat much bakery but when I was at the airport I told a friend how when I would walk by that Cinabon place that makes the cinnamon rolls, I just could not get it out of my mind and many others might be familiar with this. The company makes every effort possible to have the smell waft throughout the airport as it does increase sales. Both my grandmother and mother baked them when I was young and certain anchors for me are extremely strong most especially smell and sound. There are places and things that bring back a flood of memories for me when the smell is reintroduced even when I am in Brussels I know by the scent in the air. Pictures work the same way for many and it is why young guys often go back looking at the same ones over and over which can hardly be considered research. But that feeling they get when they look at them that good feeling becomes an anchor €¦ €¦ €¦ €¦ €¦ €¦.something important to understand as one can use that to their advantage if they know how to actually make a better decision. Sometimes just changing the anchor and the association is all it takes.
 
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topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
As I look back before I started my repair I can only now notice a pattern which really did help lead me down the wrong road.


Clinic 1

President of one of these hair loss associations with a string of letter ISXYZ123.
Television appearances on morning talk shows.
Newspaper PR pieces.

Clinic 2

Published a book

Clinic 3

Magazine PR pieces
Newspaper PR pieces
Selling their own line of shampoo
Performed surgery on celebrities

Clinic 4

Magazine PR pieces
Published book
Named a procedure after himself
Performed surgery on celebrities
Selling their own line of shampoo
Offering seminars to other clinic on how to generate more cash flow with his new technology.


All of the above mean zero €¦ €¦ €¦ €¦.in fact when you see too much of it I would suggest being extra careful and actually be even more cautious whether it's a clinic or a rep it's telling you something. Interestingly enough clinic 4 did the most long term damage.
 
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