My second hair transplant surgery: repair work from last botch-job!

[TheMirrorOfDreams]

topccat29 wrote:

Here is my amateur opinion. I don €™t think you can keep that hairline given your hairloss pattern and age. A better plan might be to remove the front half of what was transplanted along with the temple area. It €™s a harder and longer road but long term it might be a better plan. Most importantly slow down and really take the time to think each and every option through thoroughly.



You should take a look at Fred from Belgium thread. He is a few years older than you and his hairline seems to be positioned in a way that might be a good choice for you. Good luck to you.





Making another rash decision out of desperation is exactly what you do not want to do.

You're right, I can't keep this hairline as is, neither do I wish to. My plan is sorta to remove the front half along with the temple area, as you said. I won't rush things this time around, that I cannot afford, neither financially nor donor-wise. I must bide my time, to be sure. I will take a look at that, thanks!

 

[TheMirrorOfDreams]

baldasabadger10 wrote:

The doctor has tried to recreate your youthful hairline but failed in his artistry ability. All the options previously said could be viable depending on what you want to achieve.If you leave hairline as is removing corners and certain graft you may lose more hair which will require more surgery. You could have the hairline punched out to create a more mature one but run the risk of visible scarring. I've seen hairlines heightened by a strip being incised out, again there's a risk of the scar showing.

Are you taking any preventative measures to stop your hairloss?

I wonder if these scars can be covered with make-up or some sort of concealer? I have never seen fue scars with hair shaved all the way down. I have seen a few cases of beard to head transplants, where the fue scars left in the beard area were virtually NeXT to imperceptible.
I am on Propecia (Finasterida 1mg), and have been so for about 14 months now.
I quit Rogaine however. I will start using it again after my next potential surgery.

 

[topccat29]

A good way to look at it would be you have probably used about 25% of you available donor maybe more depending on where you are heading long term. If you add more grafts to that same area how much more will that decrease you donor supply? Will the percentage left match up to what you believe your hairloss pattern in the future will need to appear normal?

For example maybe you use another 10% of the donor on the same area which might represent only 20% of your long term hairloss. You have now used 35% of your donor on an area that represents 20% of your hairloss pattern and that donor percentage might even be higher depending. For some guys it could very well be 50% of their donor for a 20% area which long term is a very, very bad idea.

Long term the math needs to add up. So once you have a plan it should make perfect sense on paper and this is why it is very possible that some of those grafts need to be removed if your goal is a long term plan.

These numbers are all just examples and guesses and something to think about. I believe H&W does excellent work €¦ €¦ €¦ €¦ €¦.I €™m just thinking you might need to have some of those grafts removed €¦ €¦ €¦ €¦not the easy road that €™s for sure.


You might not want to take that road which is understandable but the numbers posted should help others understand that the math has to add up long term.

 

[TheMirrorOfDreams]

topccat29 wrote:

A good way to look at it would be you have probably used about 25% of you available donor maybe more depending on where you are heading long term. If you add more grafts to that same area how much more will that decrease you donor supply? Will the percentage left match up to what you believe your hairloss pattern in the future will need to appear normal?









For example maybe you use another 10% of the donor on the same area which might represent only 20% of your long term hairloss. You have now used 35% of your donor on an area that represents 20% of your hairloss pattern and that donor percentage might even be higher depending. For some guys it could very well be 50% of their donor for a 20% area which long term is a very, very bad idea.









Long term the math needs to add up. So once you have a plan it should make perfect sense on paper and this is why it is very possible that some of those grafts need to be removed if your goal is a long term plan.









These numbers are all just examples and guesses and something to think about. I believe H&W does excellent work €¦ €¦ €¦ €¦ €¦.I €™m just thinking you might need to have some of those grafts removed €¦ €¦ €¦ €¦not the easy road that €™s for sure.














You might not want to take that road which is understandable but the numbers posted should help others understand that the math has to add up long term.

Yes, well said. I don't think I have the greatest donor hair. The hair on the back of my scalp is thick, but not sure about how dense it is though. Or maybe it is the other way around, I don't know. The hair on the sides of my head (inside of the safe-zone) is in some areas fairly thick, while in others not dense and a bit thinner. I estimate I have a total of 3500-4500 donor grafts left. The "advantage" I possess is that I have an abundance of dark and fairly thick body hair. Hair that could restore even a Norwood 7, should that day ever come (knock on Wood). But yes, in the end my plan is long-term, so I will opt for a more mature hairline. I will most likely have at least 500-1000 of the badly angled grafts removed and re-implanted further up on my scalp. I understand this hairline is neither artistic nor a good idea to keep around for the coming years, as it is too low and too large an area to waste grafts on. Three things worries me: my scalp donor supply, the laxity of my scalp, and the scarring the FUE might leave behind. As of now, I am awaiting Dr. Jerry Wong's conclusion.

 

[baldasabadger10]

There's a repair by Dr Mwamba located here

http://www.hairlossexperiences.com/view_topic.php?id=5315&forum_id=64
It may give you some idea what can be achieved.

 

[Guest]

think long and hard before your next move.i would not want to have to use make up to conceal scars.this would be a pain for rest of your life and may not look right.

 

[TheMirrorOfDreams]

danielpeng wrote:

think long and hard before your next move.i would not want to have to use make up to conceal scars.this would be a pain for rest of your life and may not look right.

Absolutely. Can't afford to make any more mistakes. I will use a minimal amount of grafts, in order to rebuild my hairline. The norwood 0 hairline has got to go, and be replaced with a higher, sharper, and more mature hairline. That's why I consider having fue before another fut, because I don't want to waste the few thousands of grafts I have left in my donor area, on my hairline alone. Later on I can use body hair, but in order for that to look decent, it has to be mixed in with my scalp hair, or else it may just end up looking quite silly.












This is my goal:












- Extract the front half portion of the poorly designed hairline/badly angled grafts, re-implant them higher up, remove the grafts implanted outside of my temporal peaks and use them for my new hairline (50-80 hairs), add perhaps another 1000-1500 grafts to my new hairline, and use nape hair to build on the temples and sideburns. Before doing this, a test patch would be wise.












Even if it takes another 1-2 years to fix this mess, so be it...




One more mishap, and it's GAME OVER.

 

[garageland]

Mirror of dreams, really sorry to hear of your situation but don't be so hard on yourself you are a very young guy who put his trust in a Doctor that you assumed had your best interests at heart. Many repair patients in your shoes so give yourself a break. I do agree that it is best not to focus on the past. Now is the time to make up for the mistakes of the past.

I have not dealt with you before so was not aware of your case until this post but I think you sum it up best in your last post. The hairline is low and broad and the temporal angles are not right. Agreed that at least part of the hairline needs to come out. If you feel this way now then it is likely you are going to feel this way in 5-10 years time. To take out all of those grafts will be quite a job in one session.

To laser the hairs out would result in less damage to the skin but of course it would destroy the hairs, it would also likely take several sessions to do this. I would actually have a number of grafts taken out with FUE and see how the healing is before going the full way and having the entire front few cms of the hairline taken out. A slowly but surely approach might be best in your case if the skin heals well then you can take more out in a second session.

Your donor scar looks a little on the low side but it should be workable and can be improved provided you have the laxity and will enable enough grafts to get you where you need to be. This could all be done in the first session, a second session might be needed to either remove the rest of the grafts by fue or you could go down the laser route if that was not recommended once you have tried to remove some grafts. You have receded behind the transplanted area, are you taking meds?

Cases like yours are much better suited to be seen in person so the size of the grafts implanted can be seen, laxity and density and scar position can be assessed.

It seems that guys from Norway have very limited options as I have had two repair patients from Norway have surgery with Dr Wong this month.

 

[TheMirrorOfDreams]

garageland wrote:

Mirror of dreams, really sorry to hear of your situation but don't be so hard on yourself you are a very young guy who put his trust in a Doctor that you assumed had your best interests at heart. Many repair patients in your shoes so give yourself a break. I do agree that it is best not to focus on the past. Now is the time to make up for the mistakes of the past.

I have not dealt with you before so was not aware of your case until this post but I think you sum it up best in your last post. The hairline is low and broad and the temporal angles are not right. Agreed that at least part of the hairline needs to come out. If you feel this way now then it is likely you are going to feel this way in 5-10 years time. To take out all of those grafts will be quite a job in one session.

To laser the hairs out would result in less damage to the skin but of course it would destroy the hairs, it would also likely take several sessions to do this. I would actually have a number of grafts taken out with FUE and see how the healing is before going the full way and having the entire front few cms of the hairline taken out. A slowly but surely approach might be best in your case if the skin heals well then you can take more out in a second session.

Your donor scar looks a little on the low side but it should be workable and can be improved provided you have the laxity and will enable enough grafts to get you where you need to be. This could all be done in the first session, a second session might be needed to either remove the rest of the grafts by fue or you could go down the laser route if that was not recommended once you have tried to remove some grafts. You have receded behind the transplanted area, are you taking meds?

Cases like yours are much better suited to be seen in person so the size of the grafts implanted can be seen, laxity and density and scar position can be assessed.

It seems that guys from Norway have very limited options as I have had two repair patients from Norway have surgery with Dr Wong this month.

Hello, and thank you for commenting on my thread, garageland.
Lasering the hairs out means loosing that hair for good, which would put me in a spot. :/ Once I receive a final conclusion/recommendation from Dr. Wong via e-mail and after having met him in person, I will heed his counsel. If I am going to re-design the majority of the hairline, I will need to pay Dr. Wong two visits, so doing a test patch during my first visit is a possible scenario. I am on propecia, and have been so for 14 months now. The "doctor" actually left a gap between my native hair and the transplanted hair, though the gap has somewhat increased, but not much. I think the hair that used to be there, were likely to dissapear anyways. Maybe shock-loss caused the gap to widen, I do not know...

 

[janna]

In my opinion, if you're wanting to take as many grafts out of the hairline as you do, it will likely require more than 2 sessions just to extract them all out. FUE'ing out already implanted hairs is more difficult than extracting native donor hairs. The angles and directions are not consistent, so it's more of a guess as to how they are angled below the surface of the skin. Therefore, it takes a lot longer to extract the grafts and you also cannot extract grafts too closely or two extraction sites could touch creating one bigger punch circle than two small circles. In cases like yours, I'd estimate you could need 3 fue extraction (punch out) sessions to achieve the more natural mature hairline you desire. From what I can see in the pic you posted, the hairs look stronger than hairs behind it. You would want to use those hairs for behind the hairline not at the front or else they'll still look thick and stalky.

Good luck to you.

 

[TheMirrorOfDreams]

janna wrote:

In my opinion, if you're wanting to take as many grafts out of the hairline as you do, it will likely require more than 2 sessions just to extract them all out. FUE'ing out already implanted hairs is more difficult than extracting native donor hairs. The angles and directions are not consistent, so it's more of a guess as to how they are angled below the surface of the skin. Therefore, it takes a lot longer to extract the grafts and you also cannot extract grafts too closely or two extraction sites could touch creating one bigger punch circle than two small circles. In cases like yours, I'd estimate you could need 3 fue extraction (punch out) sessions to achieve the more natural mature hairline you desire. From what I can see in the pic you posted, the hairs look stronger than hairs behind it. You would want to use those hairs for behind the hairline not at the front or else they'll still look thick and stalky.

Good luck to you.

My thanks, I'll keep that in mind.

 

[jonzi]

This is what you need to do:

http://www.hairlossexperiences.com/view_topic.php?id=5431&forum_id=64


I would not go with hasson and wong for this one. They don't do FUE. They will most likely suggest a brow lift as that is what they have done before in cases such as yours. Then reimplant a new strip to cover the rest. Your transplanted hairline is so low. A brow lift could be difficult. But hey, maybe you got tremendous laxity.

My gut tells me FUE, but I could be wrong.

You will need someone very skilled to take out the badly implanted grafts as they are difficult to get when the angle is unnatural.

Dr Doganay is obviously an alternative but I would consult with several people. Here is my shortlist in no particular order:

Dr Feriduni
Dr Bisanga
HDC in Cyprus


Doganay is without a doubt the most economical alternative. But in this case, money should not be an object. What does your family and friends say about your terrible transplant? Are the willing to help you? financially, emotionally?

 

[TheMirrorOfDreams]

jonzi wrote:

This is what you need to do:

http://www.hairlossexperiences.com/view_topic.php?id=5431&forum_id=64


I would not go with hasson and wong for this one. They don't do FUE. They will most likely suggest a brow lift as that is what they have done before in cases such as yours. Then reimplant a new strip to cover the rest. Your transplanted hairline is so low. A brow lift could be difficult. But hey, maybe you got tremendous laxity.

My gut tells me FUE, but I could be wrong.

You will need someone very skilled to take out the badly implanted grafts as they are difficult to get when the angle is unnatural.

Dr Doganay is obviously an alternative but I would consult with several people. Here is my shortlist in no particular order:

Dr Feriduni
Dr Bisanga
HDC in Cyprus


Doganay is without a doubt the most economical alternative. But in this case, money should not be an object. What does your family and friends say about your terrible transplant? Are the willing to help you? financially, emotionally?

I don't think I have very good laxity, actually. :/ And only decent donor, I think. The doctors you've gone and listed, are among my top 5. Dr. Bisanga has available consultation in January next year, Dr. Erdogan in late December this year. Maybe I should go ahead and consult them both. Yeah, Dr. Doganay is without doubt the most economical one, but this time around, that will NOT be a deciding factor. Dr. Feriduni is yet to answer. My family understands and are willing to aid me in financing the operation, and for that I am truly grateful. I'm pretty stoic overall, so that which concerns the emotional, I can only support myself. If only I could get myself out of this mess I've gotten myself into. What about Dr. Rahal? I've seen some impressive repair cases posted online, not sure if fue is a part of his standard practice though. Thanks for helping me out, it is much appreciated!

 

[annoyed.steve]

Hey dude. I feel for you man. I'm in exactly the same position. Had a botched up procedure done earlier in the year. So annoyed ::;mb . I am also now considering a repair procedure and looking at exactly the same doctors. If only I hadn't been so naive. Well, what's done is done, trying to move on. Good luck and keep on posting.

 

[TheMirrorOfDreams]

annoyed.steve wrote:

Hey dude. I feel for you man. I'm in exactly the same position. Had a botched up procedure done earlier in the year. So annoyed ::;mb . I am also now considering a repair procedure and looking at exactly the same doctors. If only I hadn't been so naive. Well, what's done is done, trying to move on. Good luck and keep on posting.

I'm sorry you had to go through this too. :/ We've both done goofed. I too was naive, gullible, desperate, etc. I know the frustration, all too well. It's welling up inside me! But there is hope, for the both of us! Hope for a future, where we can look normal again, heh.

I think either Dr. Feriduni or Dr. Bisanga is the man for the job. I will be going to Belgium as soon as possible, as soon as the date for consultation is set.
By the way, when are you planning on having your repair surgery? How old are you? Who did your last hair transplant? Just curious...

 

[garageland]

Dr Wong has been doing fue in small sessions but mainly fue removal from poor surgery elsewhere so would be able to help you. That said I think you need some in person consultations and the clinics that Jonzi has given you are all excellent choices.

Good luck whichever way your turn but you are right to take your time and not to make a mistake this time around.

 

[topccat29]

I agree with most of what has been posted here. I think you almost have to start out with removal and that removal has to be very small...........maybe 50 grafts or less. Then assess over 1 year. If it looks good then move forward with something larger over several sessions maybe planting some back into the scar depending on if you decide to go strictly fue.

It could take 4-5 years but doing it right is better then having to deal with something from 40-50 years. Better to take the hard road in my opinion and assume as little risk as possible.

 

[topccat29]

Jonzi is actually giving the best advice and the problem is that it might come off as antagonistic to those that work in the industry and that €™s one of the biggest stumbling blocks in front of patients that need good advice. Jonzi gave the advice I wanted to write but didn €™t because even I sometimes feel like it can €™t be done without getting all this flack from those in the industry that believe they are doing good when I believe they are in fact doing harm. Too many patients are guilty of this behavior of not being honest and just kind of dancing around and those in the industry are sometimes the worst as they have this constant need not to offend anyone and the patient €™s needs very often come in second............this is the reality.


This patient needs someone that is very highly skilled in fue. Someone that does it day in and day out, month after month, year after year and knows it like he knows the back of his own hand and can be backed up with a body of work. Sometimes the truth is uncomfortable but this patient needs the truth and regardless of his course of action others that are just researching need to read it. Sometimes you might not always get the truth that you need so you might need to figure it out on your own.


It's not a put down towards anyone............it's honest straight advice without all the constant bullshit.

This kid needs the best advice possible and he is just a kid at least in my book.

Mirror do yourself a favor and bring a family member preferably a parent along with you on your consults. Have them become part of the forums by viewing your questions along with the responses. It is very rare for a parent not to worry if their own child might be in harms way. You are simply too young and although we don't want to admit it at that age you do not have the life experience that an older family member might have. Yes it might be a bit humiliating but it will help you make a better decision.

Yes ask any repair patient and those feelings you have are the same for them all..........if only I could just fix this, I will be a better person................take your time and do it right.

 

[Bigmac]

There are 5 or 6 clinics in Belgium doing Fue work, if you could go there you may be able to have a good amount of inhouse consultations which will provide you with a good idea on what can be done to fix your hair.

 

[TheMirrorOfDreams]

Bigmac wrote:

There are 5 or 6 clinics in Belgium doing Fue work, if you could go there you may be able to have a good amount of inhouse consultations which will provide you with a good idea on what can be done to fix your hair.

I have four doctors operating in Belgium on my list (and those are the only recommended one's, as far as I'm concerned): Dr. Christian Bisanga, Dr. Bijan Feriduni, Dr. Jean Devroye, and Dr. Patrick Mwamba...but I will only go to someone whom specializes in both fue and repair work, so Hasson & Wong is for the moment off of my list.