Old Punch Diameter vs. New Punch Diameter.

[sl]

Hi Hairtech

Thanks for the informative post and as you say punching out grafts on a 23 year old who had surgery 3 years prior is concerning in the least.

 

[topccat29]

Well of course the 4mm punch brings back memories for me. I think what is most important about this tool is not so much the tool, procedure and the result but the person wielding the tool. Using myself as an example a 23 year old with very modest thinning in the temple areas. Why would someone think that taking very thick dark caliber hairs from the occipital area of the head and planting them in an area where the hairs are much lighter and thinner in caliber would be a good look. Also keeping in mind that not only do the multiple follicular groupings look bizarre but when you space out approximately 40 plugs across the front of the head it looks even more bizarre.

Did I myself know any better at 23 €¦ €¦ €¦.no €¦ €¦ €¦.I thought it was as simple as moving a few hairs from here to there. Did the doctor know that I didn €™t know any better €¦ €¦of course. Will many heed this advice €¦ €¦ €¦ €¦no because free advice has no value so they will pay the price too often to learn the hard way.

Just like many that come on to the forums, they think well I will just go to someone in the area as all they are doing is moving a few hairs from here to there how difficult could that be? It €™s cosmetic surgery and until someone truly understands the implications of cosmetic surgery and the procedure they should not have the surgery.

Another point here is that person, the person that would do this is still out there. They somehow rationalize in their head what they are doing is okay. I see those results still today and often times on the forums using all the so called advancements and most readers will not make a negative comment even when it seems obvious regardless of it €™s the 4mm plug or something else that is the maybe the latest buzz.

But maybe it €™s patient that is to blame here as the information is readily available today as opposed to the past if one were to take the time and look hard enough yet we see so many still wandering around thinking they will find someone in their area or go somewhere because wow look at that price.

It €™s always the desperation and the need to have it done now that is often their downfall.

 

[hairtech]

I have heard more than once that the plugs that were performed back in the day did in fact look good at first... until further hairloss... leaving islands of hair. I have never seen a picture just after a plug procedure from back in the 1980's and 1990's.

 

[mars]

This is painful viewing..

http://www.angelfire.com/indie/hairtransplant/punch.html

 

[hairtech]

ouch

 

[Hattingen Hair]

This is a good thread because it is diverse. FUE is largely mis-understood as there has been so much said good and bad, latterly good. But there are obviously pitfalls and benefits.

Being able to remove incorrectly placed grafts on a hair line can give someone back their life, removing each poorly placed graft with a single punch. As topcat says, vivid memories of 4mm punches are gone.

FUE has allowed to harvest outside the traditional safe zone so expanding the extraction area and expanding the graft count that can be achieved.

Unlike the punching of old FUE punches should be able to isolate a single FU regardless of size and remove it leaving other FU ´s intact because in reality you can only remove 1 and leave the surrounding FU ´s otherwise the donor becomes very visibly thinner.

If adjacent FU ´s are removed or deliberately transected to leave at least one hair to give a degree of coverage then FUE is not being adhered to in the pure sense and it is a matter of simply getting the most from the donor short term.

hairtech brings up good points about FUE and the changes that have occured, and for example can it alter the donor especially after larger procedures are performed.

 

[topccat29]

The problem with that 4mm punch is as far as improving a patient €™s life it was very close to 100% failure or very close to that number so in order to persuade anyone to sign up for it most of the information was hidden unless one really knew what to ask. Since the industry preyed on young desperate guys they were a perfect target no experience and desperate €¦ €¦ €¦..very bad combination.

Here is what I don €™t get, I had an exchange with a very well known doctor that expressed that Puig the guy that disfigured my head was not really a bad guy once you got to know him. Sorry but I would disagree and I am not alone in my experience or opinion so how does one rationalize in their mind that this guy is okay and what does it say about this other doctor. Well it says something to me that most might not pick up on but it €™s those little things that people say and do over the years €¦ €¦ €¦ €¦.that is what one needs to look at and that takes time.

Another thing I don €™t quite get about these guys that were wielding that 4 mm punch. Why are they not in jail as so many others that have done much less while misleading the public are sitting in the slammer. It happens all the time in fact I just read another article this time about Kevin Trudeau which is actually someone I agree with for the most part. He was fined $37M for misleading the public with a weight loss book. He has not paid the fine and is now in contempt. Being familiar with many other cases I can guarantee you he will get a minimum of 25years behind bars yet these guys who have done so much damage in HT are still walking around.

 

[topccat29]

I don't want to get too far off topic here but what's interesting about that Trudeau case is he was found guilty and fined $37M because the court ruled that stating the weight loss solutions he presented in his book were "easy" was being deceptive..........lol............can you imagine............now that doesn't seem fair to me but whatever.

Yes the 4mm punch I'm sure was presented to many as an "easy" solution...............lol.............come on...........that't can't possibly be true............can it?

 

[hairtech]

hattigen,

The meaning behind your words in your post show that there are a few individuals out there such as yourself get the meaning of FUE.

FUE in this day and time was a redesign of an old and archaic technology. And as of 2013 there are now a plethora of clinics that at least acknowledge and has proven the use of smaller punches to isolate a single follicular unit, leave miniscule dotting, and not transect the pure follucular unit. In my opinion, there should not be a purposeful transection of a follicular unit unless it is to thin out a plug that was transplanted from the old days of the 4.0mm punch.

Below is an example of an old school 4+mm punch extraction from the 1980's (a photo found on the internet), and the next picture is a 0.9mm punch extraction that I shaved down yesterday from a procedure performed with a small punch from 2011.

 

[hairtech]

A smaller 0.9mm blunt punch rotary tool with 1900 grafts extracted 1st pass. Shaved with an american 1/2" guard (1.27cm) 2 years post op.