Permanent ink-SMP...example of a disaster

[hairtech]

Also, the lasering of tattoos/SMP can be quite painful.

 

[bullitnut]

Very helpful post Nicole.

 

[Nicole007]

hairtech wrote:

Also, the lasering of tattoos/SMP can be quite painful.

You are right hairtech, I have had many patients describe laser tattoo removal as "torture".:'#G:: If you talk/ask the laser specialists they describe the sensation as "repeatedly being snapped by a rubber band". [):h:: I do think, that is one of the appealing benefits of Temporary SMP. The pigment is designed to fade and disappear (vs. changing color) and is laid so superficially (.05mm) into the dermis that it will be gone in 6-24 months. IMO, the idea of "touch-ups" is far more appealing than laser treatments. I say "the less of two evils".

 

[Westcoaster]

@ Nicole,
If it's so painful why can't the patient have the area anaesthetised?

 

[Nicole007]

Westcoaster wrote:

@ Nicole,

If it's so painful why can't the patient have the area anaesthetised?

That is an option. But, the clinic would need to have a medical director. Many do not. So therefore, the laser technicians can only use over - the - counter topical numbing agents. And, they just are not strong enough for some people.

 

[Westcoaster]

Do SMG offer laser removal? If so the patient could have pain free laser sessions.

 

[Nicole007]

Westcoaster wrote:

Do SMG offer laser removal? If so the patient could have pain free laser sessions.

No, unfortunately, we do not. We do have a Dr. who we refer to. But, many of our pts. do not live local.

 

[Westcoaster]

Maybe this is something more HT clinics like SMG should offer in conjunction with their repair work, I foresee many more patients having results like this unfortunate guy.

 

[Nicole007]

Westcoaster wrote:

Maybe this is something more HT clinics like SMG should offer in conjunction with their repair work, I foresee many more patients having results like this unfortunate guy.

Agreed, but I hope that the Permanent SMP companies continue to make strives in their procedure and these results are minimized. We have not seen a need for a laser with our own procedure because we are using the temporary SMP technique.

 

[Westcoaster]

Some will make the extra effort to produce good work, however others will see it as a way to make a quick buck. Many countries have no laws to regulate tattoo artists, whilst on vacation in Europe I was offered a tattoo on the beach.

 

[hairtech]

I agree. Also In my opinion a lesser aggressive approach by the the permanent SMP should be taken into consideration.

For instance if you are getting "blue" heads over and over again then there is a huge problem. Maybe it's time for a different approach. >C>::

 

[Nicole007]

Westcoaster wrote:

Some will make the extra effort to produce good work, however others will see it as a way to make a quick buck. Many countries have no laws to regulate tattoo artists, whilst on vacation in Europe I was offered a tattoo on the beach.

You are correct, I have seen great work again and again from many different technicians and many of the companies (some that post work on this site and some that do not) that do permanent pigmentation. There really are some truly passionate artists that exist. I think unfortunately, the learning curve is bigger than many people realize. It takes many hours of practice, research, and mentoring to obtain the optimal results that SMP has to offer. Those "dots" are a lot trickier than most people realize.

A tattoo on the beach? Sort of sounds appealing (although unsanitary) in this frozen Minnesota tundra right now....;;D

 

[Bigmac]

Hi Nicole,
What's the difference when tattooing into scar tissue as opposed to normal scalp.
Does the ink have a tendency to run more in scar tissue.

 

[bullitnut]

Bigmac wrote:

Hi Nicole,
What's the difference when tattooing into scar tissue as opposed to normal scalp.
Does the ink have a tendency to run more in scar tissue.

Good question BM, i have a small normal tattoo that was done over a scar elewhere and it ran a little.

 

[Nicole007]

Bigmac wrote:

Hi Nicole,

What's the difference when tattooing into scar tissue as opposed to normal scalp.

Does the ink have a tendency to run more in scar tissue.

Hi Bigmac,
When the body undergoes trauma, it forms a "patch" as quickly as possible. Scar tissue in essence is a patch. They are very different from the "normal" healthy skin on the scalp because they lack proper blood flow, collagen, and melanin, etc. Because of this tough and hard nature of the scar tissue, there is a greatly minimized ability for them to receive pigmentation, or to retain it. Some scars wills will not retain color at all and others will grab the color very quickly. They can be very unpredictable.
With that being said, as a technician, it is important to be aggressive enough to put enough pigment into the skin to make a difference but not to be overly aggressive as to cause migration (running). Because scars are tougher to penetrate it takes more skill to control needle penetration.
At SMG, we have been approaching scars very cautiously and breaking the treatments into 3 sessions booked 4-6 weeks apart. This has been very helpful, because we can watch the healing process between sessions and see how the skin is responding after each treatment.
I will ask one of our Dr's to also respond to your question.

 

[Bigmac]

Thanks Nicole,
It good to hear the cautious approach when tattooing scar tissue, it would be great to see more cases documented on here.
Bm.

 

[Dr. Josephitis]

Nicole007 wrote:

Bigmac wrote:

Hi Nicole,

What's the difference when tattooing into scar tissue as opposed to normal scalp.

Does the ink have a tendency to run more in scar tissue.

Hi Bigmac,
When the body undergoes trauma, it forms a "patch" as quickly as possible. Scar tissue in essence is a patch. They are very different from the "normal" healthy skin on the scalp because they lack proper blood flow, collagen, and melanin, etc. Because of this tough and hard nature of the scar tissue, there is a greatly minimized ability for them to receive pigmentation, or to retain it. Some scars wills will not retain color at all and others will grab the color very quickly. They can be very unpredictable.
With that being said, as a technician, it is important to be aggressive enough to put enough pigment into the skin to make a difference but not to be overly aggressive as to cause migration (running). Because scars are tougher to penetrate it takes more skill to control needle penetration.
At SMG, we have been approaching scars very cautiously and breaking the treatments into 3 sessions booked 4-6 weeks apart. This has been very helpful, because we can watch the healing process between sessions and see how the skin is responding after each treatment.
I will ask one of our Dr's to also respond to your question.

There are a few differences that I see when comparing scar tissue with normal tissue for SMP. The question of bleeding of the pigment was mentioned as one concern and can be seen in scar tissue. Normal tissue is made up of various layers of fibers that are arranged in regular patterns. Examples of these fibers are collagen and elastin. After an injury to the skin, these tissues usually heal in a somewhat disorganized manner. This meshwork of fibers is no longer as regular and ordered as it once was. Because of this, the pigments that are used in SMP behave differently in scar tissue. Bleeding of these pigments as well as just a poor uptake of pigment can result. One way to combat these differences as Nicole pointed out, is to go slow and possibly have multiple initial sessions in order to "get a feel" for how the tissue responds to the pigment. During subsequent sessions the technique can be modified as needed for optimal results.


Another distinction is that scar tissue is usually hypopigmented or lighter in color than the surrounding normal tissue. This can become a problem when trying to blend in the lighter-colored scar tissue with the darker surrounding tissue. Typically the patients with scars that we see in the clinic are those with strip scars or older plug scars that are now more easily visible with continued hair thinning or with shorter haircuts. Extra care has to be taken with these patients when using SMP. It is not always possible to just place pigment into the scar. These areas instead, need to be blended in very carefully with the surrounding skin to give a more natural appearance.


Having discussed some challenges with using SMP into scar, I still believe that it is a good procedure for many patients. I have seen many strip scar and FUE scar patients with a dramatic improvement after SMP. Even in patients where the SMP didn't take as well as it did in the surrounding tissues, the softening of the appearance of the scar compared with the normal tissues was still very noticeable and positive.

 

[Nicole007]

Dr. Josephitis wrote:

Nicole007 wrote:

Bigmac wrote:

Hi Nicole,



What's the difference when tattooing into scar tissue as opposed to normal scalp.



Does the ink have a tendency to run more in scar tissue.

Hi Bigmac,

When the body undergoes trauma, it forms a "patch" as quickly as possible. Scar tissue in essence is a patch. They are very different from the "normal" healthy skin on the scalp because they lack proper blood flow, collagen, and melanin, etc. Because of this tough and hard nature of the scar tissue, there is a greatly minimized ability for them to receive pigmentation, or to retain it. Some scars wills will not retain color at all and others will grab the color very quickly. They can be very unpredictable.

With that being said, as a technician, it is important to be aggressive enough to put enough pigment into the skin to make a difference but not to be overly aggressive as to cause migration (running). Because scars are tougher to penetrate it takes more skill to control needle penetration.

At SMG, we have been approaching scars very cautiously and breaking the treatments into 3 sessions booked 4-6 weeks apart. This has been very helpful, because we can watch the healing process between sessions and see how the skin is responding after each treatment.

I will ask one of our Dr's to also respond to your question.

There are a few differences that I see when comparing scar tissue with normal tissue for SMP. The question of bleeding of the pigment was mentioned as one concern and can be seen in scar tissue. Normal tissue is made up of various layers of fibers that are arranged in regular patterns. Examples of these fibers are collagen and elastin. After an injury to the skin, these tissues usually heal in a somewhat disorganized manner. This meshwork of fibers is no longer as regular and ordered as it once was. Because of this, the pigments that are used in SMP behave differently in scar tissue. Bleeding of these pigments as well as just a poor uptake of pigment can result. One way to combat these differences as Nicole pointed out, is to go slow and possibly have multiple initial sessions in order to "get a feel" for how the tissue responds to the pigment. During subsequent sessions the technique can be modified as needed for optimal results.





Another distinction is that scar tissue is usually hypopigmented or lighter in color than the surrounding normal tissue. This can become a problem when trying to blend in the lighter-colored scar tissue with the darker surrounding tissue. Typically the patients with scars that we see in the clinic are those with strip scars or older plug scars that are now more easily visible with continued hair thinning or with shorter haircuts. Extra care has to be taken with these patients when using SMP. It is not always possible to just place pigment into the scar. These areas instead, need to be blended in very carefully with the surrounding skin to give a more natural appearance.





Having discussed some challenges with using SMP into scar, I still believe that it is a good procedure for many patients. I have seen many strip scar and FUE scar patients with a dramatic improvement after SMP. Even in patients where the SMP didn't take as well as it did in the surrounding tissues, the softening of the appearance of the scar compared with the normal tissues was still very noticeable and positive.

Thank you, Dr.Josephities.

 

[Westcoaster]

Thanks Dr. Josephitis and Nicole for your input on this topic, the more SMP information online is good news for the prospective patient especially with SMP become more popular.

 

[bullitnut]

Thanks for the detailed explanations Nicole and Dr Josephitis.