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Permanent ink-SMP...example of a disaster

topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
I thought this would be helpful. It's a quote from Chris DeBarge. He has been in the tattoo business for over 25 years, much longer than most hair transplant clinics have even been around.

What I like about him is he just tells it like it is and turns plenty of people away for whatever reason if he believes he is doing the right thing. He's not going to tell you how great everything is because that would be feel good bullshit and that does not help anyone if that is all one is going to do.


"Some people want to come in and get them fixed up. You can do that get them re-done but it s nothing you can do every 5 years, because sooner or later the skin will just become a giant scar. The skin gets damaged every time you do it so you can t just keep tattooing it over and over in one place. It s the same thing with getting them re-colored, you can only do it so many times, or your skin will get all crummy. I ve seen people who have had it re-done like 4 times and they want me to recolor it again and I m just like there s no point, the skin is not going to hold any ink."
 
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bullitnut

bullitnut

4 awesome repairs with SMG
If women can get their eyebrows and lips done every few years, then i would imagine that quote would not be relevant for Temporary SMP.

 
topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
I saw a woman at the airport last summer that really stood out as having tattooed makeup. It all looked like solid colors and what made it evident was it had a kind of bleeding effect outside of the perimeter of the different areas, lips, eyebrows, eye liner. It really looked kind of scary and I did feel bad for her thinking that is not what she was expecting. But she did seem to get along okay as she was with her family. Just an observation, if someone wants to go ahead with it that s their business.
I instantly knew that the makeup was tattooed on ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦hmmmm ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦not sure what it was that made is so and I didn t want to appear to be staring.
 
Nicole007

Nicole007

Valued member
topccat29 wrote:
I saw a woman at the airport last summer that really stood out as having tattooed makeup. It all looked like solid colors and what made it evident was it had a kind of bleeding effect outside of the perimeter of the different areas, lips, eyebrows, eye liner. It really looked kind of scary and I did feel bad for her thinking that is not what she was expecting. But she did seem to get along okay as she was with her family. Just an observation, if someone wants to go ahead with it that s their business.

I instantly knew that the makeup was tattooed on ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦hmmmm ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦not sure what it was that made is so and I didn t want to appear to be staring.


Hi Topcat, I think you bring up some very relevant and important
points in your last two posts. I would like to offer a little of
my insight from an artist s perspective (both as an SMP and
permanent cosmetic makeup artist) because repair work is something I am very
passionate about.



Repeated needling (touch-ups/repair work/color boosting, etc) is
very complicated and the risk of creating more scar tissue is always something
that should be taken into strong consideration. One thing that I want to talk
about is that each procedure requires a different type of needle and they each
use different "motions".



With SMP, I personally use a single micro-needle to create my
"impressions or dots" and enter the skin .05mm and at a 90 degree
angle. The machine I use is minimally invasive because it has a very slow
"sewing machine" rotary cycle, so when I poke the skin it literally enters
and exits with one poke. The benefit of this, is that the engine does not move
so quickly that the needle catches the skin multiple times with my one poke. This
therefore decreases the risk of causing additional trauma to the impression
and/ or migration. Of course, any time
you are opening the skin you are creating a wound. But, this type of motion
actually creates a very clean "micro-tunnel" that the body is able to repair very
quickly and easily by ramping up its own natural healing processes. Often times,
the skin appears smoother, and more evenly toned. In scar tissue, this motion
and the healing response actually allow the area to accept pigmentation at a
higher level. Now, that being said, I CAN
NOT understate that if you repeatedly needle this area without letting it heal between
sessions, you will cause more scar tissue, migration (and a mess). The skin has
to be allowed to heal between procedures. Scar tissue can also be created if the
technician use needles that are too large, a machine that is too aggressive (such as a tattooing machine),or
try they try to work too fast.



Permanent Cosmetics (like tattooing) use a large range of different
needles and different motions. 3-round needles and 4-7 flat needles are most commonly
used in PC depending on the procedure, so, I will talk about them. A 3-round
needle is exactly what it sounds like, 3 needles placed very close together.
When they enter the skin at a 90 degree angle they make a small triangle (they
are used my many SMP clinics as well). 4-7
flat needles also look just like they sound. They are groups of 4 to 7 needles
that lay in a straight (or flat) line. Most often they are used for shading
large areas. Permanent cosmetics are laid deeper into the skin (1mm-2mm),
the machine is held slightly angled, and the machine has a quicker motor. The pigment is
laid with small strokes, lines, and with short scooping motions. The procedures
themselves can be more invasive than SMP because the strokes can tear skin.
Although, I have never seen migration in eyebrows, it is easily and most commonly
caused around the eyes (eyeliner) and lips by the needle being held at a wrong
angle (the pigment flows in the same direction the needle is pointed) or by trying to implant too much pigment too
quickly. If you hold the needle in one place for too long it will deposit more
pigment than you were intending.



Currently, I am working with a patient and am trying to correct
another technicians mistake of wrong placement of her vermillion lip liner (lip
liner was placed too high above the vermillion line and it created a blank
space between the lip and liner. The previous technician tried to fix it by repeatedly
touching it up and adding more pigment to the gap and it created scar tissue
that will now not hold pigment. The more appropriate way to repair that error would
have been to first use a laser to remove the misplaced line and then to redo
the pigmentation.



It is important for technicians to be schooled in all methods of
removal and repair. This is true for any and every type of pigmentation. And, for
patients who are looking for repair work
it is important for everyone to know that there are numerous options and
methods that are available to you. Never
is, add more pigment, add more pigment, add more pigment just the solution.
 
topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
Thank you for the explanation Nicole.

If a woman asked me if I think she should do permanent make up I would tell her no. Just apply regular make up and take it off, yes it can be a hassle but in the long run I think she would be better off. Maybe try to find some safe make up, not petroleum based or containing phalates, etc. It's just my opinion I don't like to see anyone take unnecessary risks. Doesn't mean I am right or wrong or that either one of us is bad if we disagree.

If someone wants to move forward and they have all the information than I can respect that choice.
 
D

Davjoe

Member
It is very sad to see such pictures. Although SMP is undoubtedly the most exciting development from the hair loss industry for many years, unfortunately there is a lot of false and misleading information out there. It is not therefore in everyones interest to be transparent and honest all of the time, and the consequences of this are felt by millions of people, particularly male hair loss sufferers, from around the world. Some companies are already proving themselves to be far better than others, however even the best companies and most experienced practitioners can make mistakes.
 
Bigmac

Bigmac

Administrator
Staff member
Thanks Dr Josehitis for that explanation.
 
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topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
Yes the most exciting development in the hairloss industry.


Just viewed another blue dotted head. Those type of results need to be reported to the FTC. It's not illegal to inject ink into someone head but if you are neglecting to tell a prospective patient that it is a possibility as in this case than that is very, very illegal. If it applies to a specific technique or procedure the patient has a legal right to be informed.


Leaving out important facts is no different than actually advertising with false facts.............it''s illegal. Maybe someone can stop more young guys from becoming damaged as these guys with the blue heads.



The average sentence is 10-20 years plus fines...............not a joke.
The representation, omission, or practice must be a "material" one. The basic question is whether the act or practice is likely to affect the consumer's conduct or decision with regard to a product or service. If so, the practice is material, and consumer injury is likely, because consumers are likely to have chosen differently but for the deception. In many instances, materiality, and hence injury, can be presumed from the nature of the practice. In other instances, evidence of materiality may be necessary.
Thus, the Commission will find deception if there is a representation, omission or practice that is likely to mislead the consumer acting reasonably in the circumstances, to the consumer's detriment.


 
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salvar

salvar

Valued member
The main thing is not to start generalise like I see some people doing, just because this is a bad case and a horrible job it doesn't mean that MSP is bad and it doesn't mean that permanent pigment is bad either. I could post hundred or pictures of bad hair transplants, does that mean that hair transplants are bad? Of course not, I see a tendency to generalise with these things, SMP as hair transplants and most aesthetic procedures will depend greatly on the knowledge of the person doing the treatment, in the case shown it looks like the person doing the treatment had absolutely no notion of what to do.
 
chrisnicolas

chrisnicolas

Member
i feel bad for this guy, its great that your helping him sort this nightmare out. i would love to see the results when your finished :)
 
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