• Welcome to Hair loss Experiences hair loss forum.

    Free impartial hair loss advice, hair transplant advice, hair loss medications and hair loss news.
    You can contact us directly at [email protected] if you experience any problems.

The problem with temporary tattooing/SMP

Dr. A s Clinic

Dr. A s Clinic

Valued member
The problem with temporary tattooing or SMP is lack of any scientific literature.
When I tried searching the net, these were the 2 links that catched my attention the most
http://tattoo.about.com/cs/beginners/a/aa032103a.htm

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/tattoo_remove.html?c=y&page=1

I wish the proponents of semi permanent pigmentation would back up their claims with more proof. Fading is not the same as total disappearance.

Now if I get a lot of black dots tattooed on my head and in 10 or 20 years my hair turn white while the dots remain black or fade to blue that will be a very difficult situation.

I look forward to more conclusive proof of the pigment disappearing for good and can't seem to get any. If you find some, please let me know.
 
H

hairtech

member
There is no actual scientific proof of pretty much anything in this industry. And especially SMP. It is a new technique.

Anyway I know that SMP can be removed by simple tattoo removal techniques. One patient said he did not like it so had it completely removed and re-done.

SMP is not as deep as regular tattooing. I took microscopic pics of grafts that has SMP within the epithelium. I'll post one soon.
 
topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
It's a tattoo why would one expect there to be some science behind it......lol......I'm not trying to be rude but it's like asking for the scientific abstracts for ear piercing, I don't think you are going to find anything.
 
Bigmac

Bigmac

Administrator
Staff member
They have done Scientific studies for the silliest of things, it is a valid point i believe.

You are putting a foreign substance under your skin which i know your body can react to.There is i believe such a thing as ink poisoning which i will look into.


 
H

hairtech

member
Ya I get what you are saying but I am sure that ink poisoning is not an issue here in the states. In fact a person performing tattoos here in Minnesota, has to be licensed by the state and the inks must be FDA approved.

On a different note, I wanted to post a picture for V of SMP and grafts under a microscope.
 

Attachments

  • micropig.jpg
    micropig.jpg
    30.2 KB · Views: 4,184
Last edited:
Bigmac

Bigmac

Administrator
Staff member
I dont think its regulated at all in the UK, not sure about the rest of Europe.
 
topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
Only on occasion do I think about the iron oxides and titanium oxides I apply to my scalp. I €™m thankful at this point to apply much less but who knows what the long term effect could be. To take those same pigments and inject them into your skin where the size is small enough to be absorbed by your system over time doesn €™t sound like it €™s a good idea.

It has been my own experience that something that sounds like a very simple solution can actually cause extensive problems somewhere down the line. My guess and I €™m not an expert on tattoos would be that a permanent tattoo is probably safer than one that is absorbed by the body. Almost similar to a woman with breast implants made from liquid silicon. If it bursts where does it go and what happens to the body. Do you end up with lupus or some other crazy disease? Of course these are unpleasant thoughts but worth thinking about. Would I inject my child with a pigment that would be absorbed by his body the answer would be no.
 
Dr. A s Clinic

Dr. A s Clinic

Valued member
topccat29 wrote:
Would I inject my child with a pigment that would be absorbed by his body the answer would be no.
topccat29 I agree with you. Scalp micropigmentation whether absorbed, partially absorbed or just faded, all are worthy of scientific inquiry before we just embrace them.
We have a Caucasian patient right now who had tottooing done (somewhere in Australia) and seriously doesn't think it was a good idea at all and has come for HT to hide it.
 
topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
To be brutally honest I would like some of what I see tested on balding guys tested on pregnant women first preferably family members of those who are offering it. How about injecting Acell into pregnant women I don €™t like to see all those stretch marks and scars they often have during pregnancy and after giving birth. We can also test these pigments at the same time after all they just disappear, poof gone, nothing to worry about.

Just joking that €™s much too risky let €™s just try it on the bald guy.

)(_::
 
Dr. A s Clinic

Dr. A s Clinic

Valued member
hairtech wrote:
Ya I get what you are saying but I am sure that ink poisoning is not an issue here in the states. In fact a person performing tattoos here in Minnesota, has to be licensed by the state and the inks must be FDA approved.

On a different note, I wanted to post a picture for V of SMP and grafts under a microscope.

For one, the pictures you show, the pigment is not in epidermis. Its in dermis.

Second, it is, IMO, irresponsible to push scalp micropigmentation as an adjunct without definite scientific literature to back up its efficacy and the possible side effects.
 
H

hairtech

member
Let me make myself crystal clear V. I am not pushing SMP. I am showing SMP. I am educating patients on what is out there. We at SMG do not particularly advocate this procedure. It is however out there and people should be educated on it. My posts do not say that I wish to post SMP.

Yes it is in the dermis AND epidermis. I took these pictures. These pics are representing the dermis of SMP. Thank you for the correction.
 
janna

janna

Moderator
Hasn't semi permanent and permanent ink for tattoos been around for 100's of years? The semi-perm ink have been used for breasts, lips, and eyebrows for years without reports of toxins going into the body.

The only clinic we currently know that uses the semi-permanent ink for SMP is Bella Medical in Milan. I would think you can find out more info on their website - use google translate.

V, are you opposed specifically to the semi-permanent ink than the permanent ink for SMP?
 
topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
It €™s probably safe for the most part but do we know for certain, no. Injecting a foreign substance into your body every few years has risk so I guess it comes down to a personal decision. Personally I feel it €™s always better to wait and see what happens to those who are tying it first and yes I appreciate that there are those willing to try it as I have learned my lesson on being the first one in the pool.

I have seen some women with no hair on their eyebrows and they appear to have something tattooed in it €™s place. It €™s almost frightening to look at like a scary circus clown but maybe they have no other choice. Never could understand why women feel the need to pluck their eyebrows, I guess they are just vain €¦ €¦lol €¦ €¦.only kidding.
 
Last edited:
topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
I thought it was funny to read this article from today. Doesn't mean anything but it does go to show you anything is possible and there is always risk whatever it is.

Tattoo infections in U.S. linked to contaminated ink

Infections prompted CDC probe

* FDA does not directly regulate tattoo inks

By Gene Emery
Aug 22 (Reuters Health) - Contaminated tattoo ink caused at least 22 skin and soft tissue infections last fall in four U.S. states, according to an analysis released on Wednesday.

The infections prompted an investigation by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention that uncovered 22 confirmed cases, 4 probable cases and 27 possible cases of contamination-related infections in New York, Washington, Iowa and Colorado.

Products from four companies were implicated during the probe. None of the companies is identified in a CDC report, released in conjunction with a New England Journal of Medicine study of the New York cases.
"People who get tattoos must be made aware of this risk and seek medical attention" if they get a rash or other abnormalities at the site, according to a commentary in the journal from a team led by Pamela LeBlanc of the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.

The bacteria got into the containers when the manufacturer used distilled or reverse-osmosis water, which is not necessarily sterile. In the New York cases, which led to a recall by the Arizona-based manufacturer, the water was used to dilute black ink into various shades of gray.

The New York cases involved infection with a bug called Mycobacterium chelonae, which caused reddish or purple raised bumps in the areas tattooed with gray. The infection can mimic an allergic reaction and be difficult to treat.

"They were not getting better" with standard care, said Dr. Byron Kennedy of the Monroe County Department of Public Health in New York, the chief author of the New England Journal of Medicine study. "You had some folks who were on treatment for 6 months or more."

The FDA does not directly regulate tattoo ink because it is regarded as a cosmetic, but it can intervene when a product has been adulterated or is regarded as unsafe.
Currently, no FDA regulation specifically requires tattoo ink to be sterile, but some local jurisdictions, such as Los Angeles County, do require that sterile water be used when inks are diluted, according to the CDC report.
CDC is encouraging doctors to keep track of such infections and report them to the FDA.

About one in five Americans has tattoos, according to a 2012 Harris Interactive poll. SOURCES: bit.ly/PwHriF New England Journal of Medicine, August 23, 2012, and 1.usa.gov/10AZNP MMWR, August 22, 2012 (Reporting by Gene Emery in Providence, Rhode Island; Editing by Ivan Oransky and Cynthia Osterman)
 
Dr. A s Clinic

Dr. A s Clinic

Valued member
janna wrote:
Hasn't semi permanent and permanent ink for tattoos been around for 100's of years? The semi-perm ink have been used for breasts, lips, and eyebrows for years without reports of toxins going into the body.

The only clinic we currently know that uses the semi-permanent ink for SMP is Bella Medical in Milan. I would think you can find out more info on their website - use google translate.

V, are you opposed specifically to the semi-permanent ink than the permanent ink for SMP?
I am opposed to misleading comments. The posts makes it seem as if the tattoo will disappear in 2 years.
Disappearing and fading are 2 very different things. And there is no scientific study or even a single example on that site that backs the claim that the tattoo will disappear.

It would be great if you can explain what you mean by semi permanent ink precisely instead of using the term loosely. Because in my understanding, semi permanent would mean something like the ink they put on our finger when we go to vote, or the permanent marker pen or even Henna... but definitely not a tattoo.

In tattoos, there is no such thing as semi permanent as far as I know. If you have proof to the contrary, please do post a link or pictures.
 
Last edited:
janna

janna

Moderator
V,

I could say the same thing and say I'm opposed to the term "permanent" used in reference to SMP. Frankly, until couple of years ago, I didn't like any "ink" used on the scalp. Only recently did I even hear the term SMP (Scalp Micro Pigmentation). I personally think it should be referred to as "pigment that fades greatly over time but a tiny remnant of pigmentation may linger", but that's just me. The depths in which the needles go into the scalp are more superficial than traditional body tattoos. You also have to factor in the sun, shampoo and shedding of skin on the scalp that it makes it almost impossible to say it's a permanent treatment but they do anyway. The idea that the treatment is "temporary" or "semi-permanent" is even more new to this field but more accurate in my opinion. I happen to think the clinic in Milan seem more honest by stating that the ink is not permanent. It's likely that they use the same type of "permanent" ink as the other SMP clinics but because of their technique and the broader color inks they use, the ink fades more quickly? I don't know and don't claim to know. We are in the learning stages. Perhaps the needle goes in even more superficially that other SMP clinics too so they've seen it fade away 2 years after treatment. Have you seen any 2+ year's results from this particular clinic in Milan that makes their claim to be false? Please post some pics if that's the case.

We can all agree that we are in the early stages of SMP. There are only a handful of clinics that even offer SMP. There seems to be no shortage of patients willing to try anything maybe due to desperation but then this desperation should tell you something €¦.We are not affiliated or associated with any clinic that offers SMP. In the right hands, SMP can be a benefit but only for a select few (those who are educated enough that they know what they are getting into). It's not for everyone and each particular patient need to research if it €™s the right option for them.
 
topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
I just happened to read this article today by chance. Although it does have more to do with titanium dental implants it is still relevant. People assume that what is offered by a doctor or dentist is safe as that has been part of their conditioning. It €™s only when it is proven unsafe for example mercury fillings which I am familiar with as my mouth is filled with the toxic crap that it no longer is performed. The problem with most of this crap is no one wants to spend the money to prove that it is indeed toxic as they have nothing to gain. Once again this is just the way the system works. I would think twice about injecting titanium oxides into my skin but maybe I €™m just too cautious. I also thought implants were safe but now I'm not so sure.


By Lina Garcia, DDS, DMD
€œWhen considering the numerous reasons for the increasing prevalence of chronic illness in our society, I think that we should not overlook the possibility that metal-containing dental work, especially titanium implants, could be acting like antennas for the microwave transmissions going on between our cell phones and all of the cell phone towers in our 21st century environment.
I strongly suspect that this is an unrecognized source of insidious stress on our physical, mental, and emotional health. The purpose of this article is to bring awareness to the public of this possibility.

If metal dental restorations €“ especially titanium implants €“ are acting like antennas for microwave transmissions from cell phones and cell phone towers, then this would ultimately be a new and insidious stress for the human body. In addition to this new type of stress, it is important to be aware that metal dental restorations and implants have already been shown to cause galvanic and electromagnetic stress for the human body. Galvanic and electromagnetic stress occurs when an unnatural electric current is generated by metal ions interacting with the electrolyte-rich fluid known as saliva.

The microwave-attracting stress, along with the galvanic and electromagnetic stress coming from metal dental restorations and implants, can certainly affect all people at any age. In my clinical experience, however, women seem to be more affected than men. This seems particularly true for menopausal women, especially when they have titanium implants.

Titanium implants, particularly when combined with other €˜toxic teeth €™ that make up what I call a €˜dirty mouth, €™ are causing sleep disturbances, anxiety and other neurological problems, thyroid dysfunction, digestive problems, heart problems, and other chronic symptoms in a number of my patients.

High-Tech Stress: The Role of Metal Dental Work
After beginning my research in preparation for writing this article, I drove my car past two big cell phone towers that really made me think about what they were doing. I thought about how those antennas were obviously amplifying my phone reception and clarity, and how they were also transmitting microwaves toward my head as I wore my phone headset.

So I thought about the possibility that metal dental restorations and especially implants, because they go so deep into the living tissue we call bone, can be adding an additional source of €˜high tech €™ stress to our bodies, bodies that are already being €˜hammered €™ with stress from so many other sources. I have never heard any other researcher or health care practitioner make this connection.

The big question is: what is an individual €™s tolerance to this type of stress? I do believe there are a growing number of people who are finding out for themselves just what the answer is, and it is not likely to be a pleasant experience of discovery.

I recently saw a patient who came to my office after visiting 20 different physicians. This patient had been experiencing what she described to me as €œnightly adrenaline rushes, € which produced a racing heartbeat that kept her from being able to sleep. Even though this patient told every physician she saw that her symptoms started after having a titanium dental implant put in and worsened after having a second titanium dental implant put in, none of physicians had any interest in considering these implants as the reasons for this patient €™s persisting problems.

The physicians did a number of €˜standard of care €™ tests but could not find the cause of this patient €™s distress. Unfortunately, the only €˜treatment €™ this patient was offered was antidepressants and sleeping pills.
After searching the Internet and other resources, this patient decided to call me for a consultation. The first question I asked was, €œWhat had been done to your body before you started having these symptoms? € This patient then told me about the titanium implants and root canals done around the same time that the second implant was put in. I further learned that this patient had a long history of extensive dental work, including mercury-amalgam fillings, metal crowns, porcelain-fused-to-metal crowns, root canals (which sometimes have metals in them), and a permanent metal retainer.

Adding the titanium implants and another root canal certainly could have pushed this patient into the seriously imbalanced state of being she was experiencing. Adding to this the insidious stress of the implants picking up microwave transmissions from cell phone towers could have caused this patient €™s body to get stuck in a state of €˜fight or flight €™ stress response. Her symptoms were certainly a strong indication of this.

After I removed her mercury-amalgam fillings and her permanent metal retainer, she experienced a lessening of her symptoms. I expect that she will see further improvement after the removal of her titanium implants. Despite this patient €™s extensive medical workup with supposedly qualified physicians, none of them even considered the connection between her present illness and her extensive dental work.

Are Metal Implants Truly Safe?
When considering whether metal implants will be safe for us or not, I believe it is prudent to acknowledge the reality that we are already exposed to many stressors in our environment, from the toxic chemicals and metals in our air, water, and food supply, to insidious sources of radiation and microwaves coming from the ever-increasing number of cell phone towers.

Plus, we struggle to balance the ongoing stress of our jobs and the challenging relationships that seem to be part of everyone €™s lives. And now it is becoming common for Americans to have somewhere between three to five titanium implants imbedded into their jawbone, just a few inches from their brain.

It is enough of a stress for the body to deal with root canals, mercury-amalgam fillings, metal crowns, and porcelain-fused-to-metal crowns (which are mostly metal). These are obstacles to healing that one €™s body would have to overcome in order to maintain balance, or what is medically called homeostasis. Putting titanium implants into the mouth of someone who already has other toxic teeth can push that person even further away from balance and towards an increased susceptibility for disease.
Even if your mouth has no implants, root canals, metal crowns, porcelain-fused-to-metal crowns, or mercury-amalgam fillings, your body still needs to adapt to all of the microwave-transmitting cell phone towers and other environmental stressors.

Humans are made up of different layers €“ different energy fields €“ including bioelectrical fields and musculoskeletal fields. It takes time for the different layers of our being to adapt to all the changes going on in our environment.

Conventional dentists and their patients think it is €˜normal €™ to keep adding titanium implants without considering how the whole body will be affected or understanding the dynamics between the implants, the body, and the outside environment. It will certainly be very valuable to your good health to be aware of all these factors.

Finding a dentist who truly practices with holistic awareness, along with taking some responsibility for educating yourself about the dental treatments you may be having, will help you make the right choices for your overall and long-term health. You will avoid creating more stress for your body, especially your immune system, and decrease your susceptibility to disease.

We have only one body to live this life -- one body to be the home of our spirit. If you don €™t take care of your body €“ where are you going to live? €
 
topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
I have a mouthful of mercury and I €™m sure the a-hole dentist thought it was a good idea to fill every molar in my mouth with the crap. Not only did he fill every molar but he did every tooth with absolutely no anesthesia. At the age of 12, you just did not question it you only sat in the waiting room in fear because you knew what was coming. Just another psycho doctor from my past. BTW I compare every procedure I have ever had to the pain of being in that dentist €™s chair and nothing even comes close.

Heavy metals are not good for the body so if you can avoid them then avoid them.
 
Prohairclinic

Prohairclinic

Prohairclinic FUE and SMP
I understand that you are worried.

But do we know exactly what we eat? Do we know what we breath?
Do we know how much radiation goes through our bodies?

I mean there are soooo many unknown issues that we can question, and we should. But I am afraid there are more questions than answers.
 
Top