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The problem with temporary tattooing/SMP

topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
Bverotti I agree we can only do the best we can do but we should always try. Personally I am aware of most of what I do and it €™s makes a huge difference. I have never felt better in my whole entire life both physically and mentally and I will be 50 in a couple of months.
 
topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
I think common sense would tell us that the increase in skin cancer has nothing to do with the Sun as the Sun has been around for a pretty long time and everything to do with the chemicals we are exposed to both internally or externally. But most people do not have common sense so they listen to experts who are there to help them when their only expertise is in making money.

Titanium Dioxide Classified as Possibly Carcinogenic to Humans
Titanium dioxide has recently been classified by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) as an IARC Group 2B carcinogen ''possibly carcinogen to humans''. Titanium dioxide accounts for 70% of the total production volume of pigments worldwide. It is widely used to provide whiteness and opacity to products such as paints, plastics, papers, inks, foods, and toothpastes. It is also used in cosmetic and skin care products, and it is present in almost every sunblock, where it helps protect the skin from ultraviolet light.

With such widespread use of titanium dioxide, it is important to understand that the IARC conclusions are based on very specific evidence. This evidence showed that high concentrations of pigment-grade (powdered) and ultrafine titanium dioxide dust caused respiratory tract cancer in rats exposed by inhalation and intratracheal instillation*. The series of biological events or steps that produce the rat lung cancers (e.g. particle deposition, impaired lung clearance, cell injury, fibrosis, mutations and ultimately cancer) have also been seen in people working in dusty environments. Therefore, the observations of cancer in animals were considered, by IARC, as relevant to people doing jobs with exposures to titanium dioxide dust. For example, titanium dioxide production workers may be exposed to high dust concentrations during packing, milling, site cleaning and maintenance, if there are insufficient dust control measures in place. However, it should be noted that the human studies conducted so far do not suggest an association between occupational exposure to titanium dioxide and an increased risk for cancer.
The Workplace Hazardous Materials Information System (WHMIS) is Canada's hazard communication standard. The WHMIS Controlled Products Regulations require that chemicals, listed in Group 1 or Group 2 in the IARC Monographs on the Evaluation of the Carcinogenic Risk of Chemicals to Humans, be classified under WHMIS Class D2A (carcinogenic). The classification decision on titanium dioxide has been published on the IARC website and in a summary article published in The Lancet

Representatives from Health Canada (National Office of WHMIS) recently consulted with the Quebec CSST and CCOHS (the two main agencies providing WHMIS classifications to the public) regarding the implications of the IARC decision to the WHMIS classification of titanium dioxide. It was agreed that titanium dioxide does now meet the criteria for WHMIS D2A (carcinogen) based on the information released by IARC to date, and that it is not necessary to wait for release of the full monograph.

Manufacturers and suppliers of titanium dioxide are advised to review and update their material safety data sheets and product labels based on this new information as soon as possible. Employers should review their occupational hygiene programs to ensure that exposure to titanium dioxide dust is eliminated or reduced to the minimum possible. Workers should be educated concerning this potential newly recognized risk to their health and trained in proper work procedures
 
bullitnut

bullitnut

4 awesome repairs with SMG
The inks and pigments have to meet safety standards in the EU shown in the link https://wcd.coe.int/ViewDoc.jsp?Ref=ResAP%282008%291&Language=lanEnglish&Ver=original&Site=COE&BackColorInternet=DBDCF2&BackColorIntranet=FDC864&BackColorLogged=FDC864

The following text was taken from the website of a pigment/ink manufacturer who produces inks for both tattoos and for permanent cosmetics that again mentions these safety standards in the EU




How XXXXXX pigments complies with both the United States FDA & EU government regulations governing cosmetics:

MANUFACTURING
Agents Present in Permanent Cosmetic/Tattoo product manufactured by XXXX pigments but not limited to:
€¢ Coloring Agent
€¢ Preservative
€¢ Dispersion/Suspension Liquid

Coloring Agents allowed for use in Cosmetics Products
FDA: As outlined in 21 CFR 73 & 74
EU: As outlined in Directive 76/768/EEC; ANNEX IV PART I & II
EU-Resolution ResAP(2008)1

Preservative Agents allowed for use in Cosmetic Products
Preservatives are substances added to cosmetic products for the primary purpose of inhibiting microbial growth.
FDA: Not applicable
EU: As outlined in Directive 76/768/EEC, ANNEX VI PART I & II
EU-Resolution
ResAP(2008)1

Substances which should not form part of the composition of Cosmetic Products, Restrictions & Provisions
FDA: As outlined in 21 CFR, Parts 250.250 and 700.11 through 700.23):
EU: As outlined in Directive 76/768/EEC, ANNEX II; ANNEX III PART I & II
EU-Resolution
ResAP(2008)1

LABELING

FDA: As outlined in 21 CFR, parts 700 to 740
EU: As outlined in Directive 76/768/EEC, Article 6
EU-Resolution ResAP(2008)1.

CERTIFICATIONS

XXXX pigments has been in business since 1992. During that time and to date we have made a commitment to safety, quality and cost efficiency as we strive to supply our customers with consistent high quality products. Much emphasis is placed on product quality and with upkeep to these guidelines; we continue to abide by the high standards as set forth within the EU Resolutions and Directives.

Colorants tested according to these resolutions provide a high level of safety and a minimum health risk for our customers. XXXXpigments has completed the testing of over 93 different substances and compounds as it relates to Certification within the EU. The testing includes carcinogenic compounds, colorants and metals causing allergies and irritations of the skin. The following is a Quick Break-down of EU Guidelines which is EU-Resolution ResAP(2008)1 validating and certification:

€¢ Investigation of Aromatic Amines with Carcinogenic, Mutagenic, Reprotoxic and sensitizing properties according to EU Resolution ResAP (2008)1
€¢ Investigation of Carcinogens classified in Categories 1, 2 and 3 by the European Commission and mentioned in the Council Directive 1967/548/EEC of 27 June 1967 According to EU Resolution ResAP (2008)1 aromatic Amines with Carcinogenic, Mutagenic, Reprotoxic and sensitizing properties according to EU Resolution
ResAP (2008)1
€¢ GC/MS-Analysis
€¢ Dyes Causing Allergies
€¢ Mutagenic and Carcinogenic Dyes
€¢ HPLC-Analysis
€¢ Heavy Metals
€¢ PAH's. Polyaromatic Hydrocarbons and Benzene-a-pyrene (BaP)
€¢ Germ Test, Total Germ Count
€¢ Microbiological Test of Sterility
Certification Certificates Available Upon Request


Testing & Analysis

XXXXX pigments operates under stringent, high quality control standards that follow all cosmetic-manufacturing protocols for cosmetics and is a State licensed €˜Certified Cosmetic Establishment €™. Micropigmentation, Permanent Cosmetics, tattooing and any other form there of are considered €œCosmetic € as outlined under the FDA (Federal Drug Administration).
XXXXX pigments has been in the production of Micropigmentation pigments for over 18 years. Our research and development coupled with our application laboratory testing have resulted in an outstanding line of cosmetic pigments, both organic and inorganic. All Permanent Cosmetic pigments (Iron Oxide, D&C & FD&C) are produced using ingredients, which are certified & approved for use in topical applications in accordance with the Federal Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act as amended. The inks, or dyes, used for tattoos are considered €œcolor additives € under the Federal Food, Drug, & Cosmetic Act. All pigments are produced in keeping with the highest standards for purity and have been tested to conform to their respective specifications for use in Micropigmentation procedures as applicable.
Safety Evaluation for Human Health of the Product, Toxicity Data for the Pigment: Bioburden Batch Testing results show the microbial and toxicity levels of the product prior to sterilization.
Total Microbial Count (Before Sterilization): Less than 20 organisms/gm
Total Microbial Count (After Sterilization): 0 organisms/gm
Sanitation & Sterilization: Where applicable various products we manufacture are Gamma-Sterilized to prevent infection & contamination.

 
topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
It really comes down to personal choice and I always tell people that I know the same thing. Some people like to soak in a giant tub of heavily chlorinated water it €™s called the local pool. I tell them that €™s probably not a good idea but as long as they are aware of it then it €™s their choice. I could give dozens of other examples and so that is the point as long as people are aware regardless of what we are talking about then it €™s up to them.

But I also tell those same people not to come crying or looking for help when you have cancer because then it €™s too late and that has happened all too often and nobody can figure out where the cancer came from.

There was a time when doctors advertised cigarettes how crazy is that? It €™s only crazy when you look back on it. Here's something that makes me laugh. I actually had a doctor in the late 1970 €™s light up a cigarette during my medical examination and it seemed to be no big deal €¦ €¦..lol €¦ €¦..absolutely true story.
 
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topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
I would also add that a book I just happened to be reading today mentioned titanium dioxide by chance. I just feel an obligation to post the information for others but whether they choose to have a tattoo or not their choice, does not matter to me. Below is a copy of a paragraph I read today. Nobody has to believe anything just believe what you choose to believe and make your own decision.

There was a rep on another site that recommended a patient apply sunscreen to their scalp I disagreed completely. What is even more remarkable is this same rep stated that he has had cancer, but people just don €™t get it and always defer to the expert.


Futhermore, many of the popular agents used in sunblock products may have toxic properties, especially when you consider the standard recommendation to reapply these synthetic chemicals frequently to your porous skin. Octyl menthoxycinnamate a chemical contained in 90 percent of sunscreen products, could damage living tissue if it penetrates your outer layer of dead skin. Titanium dioxide, another popular sunscreen compound, has been named a potential occupational carcinogen by the US government due to unclear toxic danger. Mark Sisson
 
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topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
I think if I came out with a silicone breast implant for women that had a very small pin hole that leaked the silicone out over a year €™s time and advertised it as a temporary breast implant I could make a sh*tload of money. It €™s only silicone ladies very safe. The breast implant just deflates and the silicone well I guess it just disappears, nothing to worry about. That sounds pretty lucrative having a long list of women coming back for a fill up or a top off on those double D €™s. I €™m sure it would be exciting work. If they don €™t like them they can go back to the way they looked before after a year or so no harm done.

But then again I would probably end up in jail.

It €™s amazing how desperation can make a man blind.
 
topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
Before you have those iron oxides injected into your skin at the very least have a blood test performed to evaluate your current levels of iron in the blood as iron is very carcinogenic. My own levels are relatively low but wife on the other hand has levels that would be considered high. She does donate blood on occasion to actively try and reduce these levels because we are educated on the subject.

Others might tell you not to worry after all we don €™t know what €™s in our food, water, or air but that is a completely asinine way of looking at things. I sure hope they don €™t have children.

My wife €™s brother died of leukemia about 15 years ago. The family comes from a poor country and she brought him here to the States and raised the required money for treatment through long hard hours and fund raisers she was not going to watch her brother die. Well she made it happen and he was able to receive a bone marrow transplant by the top specialist here in Chicago. Unfortunately it was not enough and he died about 2 years later.

Hair is not so important that you should risk your health for it.
 
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topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
If there is anything that my experience has taught me it is never to jump into something that is new in hopes that it is a solution. Just read a post by someone who jumped into FUE as soon as a clinic here in the States starting performing it. It was big mistake and the poster stated he should have waited at least 10 years. That is exactly what I did because of my previous experiences I waited 10 years and just watched.

At a minimum most should wait at least 5 years until you see what happens to those that decide to jump in, regardless of its plucking, Acell or tattooing or anything else that is promoted as a solution.

I understand that at an average of 2000 Euros per procedure it only takes 1000 patients to step forward which is a very small number and you have a total of 2 million Euros being generated. Obviously it becomes an emotional issue with these types of numbers and especially with its potential of recurring income which is akin to having a goose that lays golden eggs but if you look at history it is best to just watch.
 
H

Harley

Member
TC,

DO YOU EVER GET SICK OF HEARING YOURSELF TALK? MY GOD, YOU'VE POSTED 14 OF THE 20 POSTS ON THIS THREAD. WHAT MAKES YOU THINK YOU SHOULD BLATHER ON A TOPIC THE WAY YOU DO. TAKE A HINT - IF YOU'RE THE ONLY ONE PARTICIPATING ON A THREAD - NO ONE WANTS TO TALK TO YOU. YOU MADE SOME HORRENDOUS MISTAKES DESPITE BEING A KNOW IT ALL SO MAYBE YOU DON'T KNOW IT ALL!!!!!! JUST GIVE IT A REST DUDE!






 
 
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topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
Let's see first post......hmmmmm.......

It's called recognizing a poster's name that you do not care to read and skipping over it. I do it all the time.

What's even funnier no prospective patient would dissuade anyone from posting information as they want to hear it all good and bad and make their own decision. It is only someone that works in the industry that would be so concerned as to dissuade someone from posting. Hopefully others can see it.

Actually your post is enlightening as this is how the industry operates. I think I might know who you are but I'm not sure. How about giving me a hint?

Harley are you saying that I should stop posting completely or just cut back a little. Does this just apply to me or does it include those that work in the industry?
 
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topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
Yeah I guess if the iron and titanium oxides build up in the lymph nodes it's no big deal no one needs to know about it because it bothers you.

It doesn't just disappear that is complete bullshit it has to go somewhere.

Tattoo pigment in an axillary lymph node simulating metastatic malignant melanoma


CM Jack,1 A Adwani,1 and H Krishnan1


We report a case of axillary lymphadenopathy thirty years after a decorative tattoo clinically mimicking metastatic melanoma. The importance of relying on histological confirmation of metastatic disease before altering extent of surgery is discussed. The importance of recording presence of decorative tattoos is stressed.

The presence of lymphadenopathy requires further investigation. Often its presence is explained by a simple viral illness or trauma. Rarer causes are often made apparent by thorough history taking and examination. The need for a biopsy is controversial. We report a case where the answer may have been staring us in the face if we knew where to look. The fact that a tattoo causes lymphadenopathy is well known in the acute phase. This is thought to be due to local inflammation from the initial insult. However, to our knowledge there have been no reports of a palpable node after time delay this long.




Case report.

A 54 year old man presented with a lump in the right axilla of six months duration. The lump was non tender and had not changed in size. He complained of weight loss of 5 kg over the past two months. He denied foreign travel, night sweats, recent injury, cough, or the presence of any other lumps. His past medical history was unremarkable. There was no family history of breast or bowel cancer. The lump was clinically palpable and measured 3 cm. It was firm, non tender, not attached to the skin or deep tissues and was consistent with a clinical diagnosis of axillary lymphadenopathy. The left axilla and supraclavicular fossae were normal. There was no skin lesion in the drainage area of the axilla. Examination of the breasts, chest and abdomen were unremarkable. Haematology, Biochemistry and Chest X-rays were normal. Ultrasound confirmed a benign appearing lymph node with a fatty centre. In view of the size and longstanding nature of the lymph node, an excision biopsy was performed. At surgery the node was firm, suspicious and black in colour.

On histology, the specimen of the lymph node with attached fatty tissue measured 3 × 2 × 0.8 cms. Black discolouration was present on the cut surface.

Microscopic examination of the routine haematoxylin and eosin sections of the lymph node showed preservation of architecture with follicular hyperplasia. Black carbon like pigment was seen lying within the macrophages and dispersed outside them in the sinuses. There was associated fibrosis. Multiple sections did not reveal any evidence of metastatic malignant melanoma.

Immunohistochemical staining for S 100 protein and histochemical stain (Masson's Fontana) was done to further exclude that possibility.

Retrospectively we noted the 30-year old tattoo that the patient had on his right arm.


Go to:

Conclusion.

Lymphadenopathy refers to nodes that are abnormal in size, consistency or number [1]. There are various classifications of lymphadenopathy, but a simple and clinically useful system is to classify lymphadenopathy as "generalized" if lymph nodes are enlarged in two or more non-contiguous areas or "localized" if only one area is involved. Localised lymphadenopathy of the axilla is suggestive of infections, Cat-scratch disease, Lymphoma, Breast cancer, Silicone implants, Brucellosis and Melanoma. The presence or otherwise of a tattoo may not be noted in history taking for lymphadenopathy [2]. Little information exists to suggest that a specific diagnosis can be based on node size. However, in one series of 213 adults with unexplained lymphadenopathy, no patient with a lymph node smaller than 1 cm2 had cancer, while cancer was present in 8 percent of those with nodes from 1 cm2 to 2.25 cm2 in size, and in 38 percent of those with nodes larger than 2.25 cm2 [3]. In children, lymph nodes larger than 2 cm in diameter (along with an abnormal chest radiograph and the absence of ear, nose and throat symptoms) were predictive of granulomatous diseases (i.e. tuberculosis, cat-scratch disease or sarcoidosis) or cancer (predominantly lymphomas) [4].

The fact that a tattoo causes lymphadenopathy is well known in the acute phase due to local inflammation and probably resolves spontaneously. The natural history of tattoo is well documented. The tattoo ink particles may range from 2 €“400 nm and are most commonly 40 nm. They are initially found within large phagosomes in the cytoplasm of keratinocytes, phagocytic cells including fibroblasts, macrophages and mast cells. The skin layers initially appear homogenised but at one month, the basement membrane is reforming and aggregates are present within basal cells. At 2 €“3 months and at 40 years, ink particles are only found in dermal fibroblasts surrounded by a network of connective tissue that entraps and immobilises the cell. The tattoo may appear blurred with time due to ink movement into the deep dermis. Eventually the tattoo ink appears in the regional lymph nodes.

This is thought to be due to local inflammation from the initial insult. However, to our knowledge there have been no reports of a palpable node after time delay this long. The dye used in skin tattooing is carbon based.

The movement of dye through the lymph channels forms the basis of sentinel node biopsy. Complications of lymph node biopsy are reported as scaring, blood loss, infection and more rarely nerve damage and lymphoedema. The question remains whether it was necessary to biopsy this lymph node or was the presence of the tattoo enough to give reason for the enlarged node. In this instance the co factor of the weight loss meant that leaving the node would not be reasonable.

Anderson [5] and Moehrle [6] reported that tattoo pigments in Lymph nodes can mimic metastatic malignant melanoma, but do not comment on age of the decorative tattoo. Such pigmentation in patients with malignant melanoma can look metastatic and may prompt the surgeon to proceed to complete nodal dissection. Nodal dissection should be delayed till conclusive histological diagnosis is made [7].

Migration of the carbon pigment through the lymphatics is usually seen in the hilar lymph nodes draining the lungs. The main differential diagnosis in our case would be metastatic malignant melanoma. This was excluded by the careful examination of the H&E sections for tumour cells (Figure €‹(Figure1,1, €‹,2)2) and employing special stains. Immunohistochemical staining for S 100 protein is a very sensitive marker for melanoma cells and a Masson's Fontana stain helps to differentiate melanin pigment from carbon pigment.



Figure 1

Lymph node with preserved architecture and the pigment. H&E × 100.



Figure 2

The dark granular carbon pigment located in the sinuses. H&E × 400.

Sentinel lymph node biopsy is becoming more common in Melanoma and Breast cancer. History taking and examination should include presence, site, age and colour of decorative tattoos especially in the drainage areas to the axilla. History of removal of tattoos is also important as nodes may persist for several years. Raising awareness of this problem among surgeons and pathologists treating malignant melanoma is important. Investigation of axillary Lymphadenopathy should include tattoos in the drainage areas as a probable cause.


Go to:

Acknowledgements.



The authors would like to thanks Mr SR Ebbs (Consultant Surgeon) for his support and guidance.


Go to:

References.

1.Goroll AH, May LA, Mulley AG., Jr Primary care medicine: office evaluation and management of the adult patient. 2. Philadelphia: Lippincott; 1987.
2.Ferrer R. Lymphadenopathy: Differential Diagnosis and Evaluation. American Family Physician. October 15 1998.
3.Pangalis GA, Vassilakopoulos TP, Boussiotis VA, Fessas P. Clinical approach to Lymphadenopathy. Semin Oncol. 1993;20:570 €“82.[PubMed]
4.Slap GB, Brooks JS, Schwartz JS. When to perform biopsies of enlarged peripheral lymph nodes in young patients. JAMA. 1984;252:1321 €“6. doi: 10.1001/jama.252.10.1321.[PubMed] [Cross Ref]
5.Anderson LL, Cardone JS, McCollough ML, Grabski WJ. Tattoo pigment mimicking malignant melanoma. Dermatological Surgery. 1996;22:92 €“4. doi: 10.1016/1076-0512(95)00336-3. [Cross Ref]
6.Moehrle M, Blaheta HJ, Ruck P. Tattoo pigment mimics positive sentinel lymph node in melanoma. Dermatology. 2001;203:342 €“344. doi: 10.1159/000051787.[PubMed] [Cross Ref]
7.Friedman T, Westreich M, Mozes SN, et al. Tattoo Pigment in Lymph Nodes Mimicking Metastatic Malignant Melanoma. Plast Reconstructive Surg. 2003;111:2120 €“2122. doi: 10.1097/01.PRS.0000057101.95872.A1. [Cross Ref]
 
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Dr. A s Clinic

Dr. A s Clinic

Valued member
I do not think anyone should be discouraged from posting. Topccat29 has brought many scientific studies to the thread. It is always better to make a decision after too much knowledge rather then too little.
 
bullitnut

bullitnut

4 awesome repairs with SMG
I am with V, too much information can't be a bad thing. Keep on posting Topcat sir.

Shiny
 
topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
Repair patients regardless of the medical specialty have one thing in common. They lacked all the necessary information to make a good decision and often times it was intentional.

I have a friend who will be coming off of blood pressure medication this week. She has lost about 20 lbs that €™s about 15% of her bodyweight and she has completely changed the foods in her diet. The long term use of BP medication can only lead to other issues down the line which we commonly see skin and lip cancer being only one. I was happy to help her along the way and she is grateful. I don €™t need to be making loads of money to find happiness but others I understand do and it €™s serious business for them so I don €™t take offense to Harley €™s comments. It €™s the nature of the beast.
 
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sl

sl

BHR Clinic Patient Advisor
Hi TC

Knowing you personally and meeting you I can see you practice what you preach with regard to every aspect of your life and this is admirable.

Well for near 50 you are in amazing shape and seeing is believing in this case, so I am sure you know exactly what you personally are eating, drinking and probably breathing and how you train and live is not the norm but the results are not the norm either. Ordinary living does not give extraordinary results.

I have never met anyone in your shape at your age, simple as that and I appreciate your posts and the knowledge you give and people are as you said free to do with it as they wish and that's the good thing about a forum, we are here to express concerns, opinions and experiences and hopefully good comes from this.
 
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topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
Thank you for the comments SL.

Sometime it €™s hard to swim against the tide and maybe it €™s better to go along to get along but I simply can €™t do it.
 
Sparky

Sparky

Valued member
Sometimes you think of extra info to add to a topic, and you can't always add it to the same post, so it has to go into separate posts, it doesn't mean TC is talking to himself.
 
bullitnut

bullitnut

4 awesome repairs with SMG
In a nutshell this topic boils down to two options in my opinion.

1. Either you go with the millions of people world wide who are having tattoos and permanent make up on a daily basis. These practices have been happening for many many years and millions of old people are still alive and well who have tattoos with no issues.

2. You go with Topcat (who i respect) who has posted a few examples of possible complications that have been found, despite there being millions of happy people worldwide.

I am fairly new here so i will be honest and say i know little about SMP, but i would feel confident to get tattoos or let my other half get semi permanent make up as they are proved to be safe in the majority of people.

I take hair loss meds daily which are side effect free in most people. Problems are possible though and the risk does not put me off.

Ultimately Topcat it is a persons own choice but the extra information you provide is always a bonus i enjoy reading thank you.


Shiny


 
Sparky

Sparky

Valued member
How many of these millions of people are having temporary tattoos done?
 
topccat29

topccat29

29 year HT veteran
I guess all the people around me that are having strokes, heart attacks and cancer start to get to me and I ask myself what are you people doing to yourself can't you see people are just making money off of you and putting your health at risk. Another acquaitnace just had a stroke in the car on a trip back from Detroit.

Why do I know 3 people that have cancer of the salivary gland.......but I'm sure it's not the cell phone they had glued to their face, the cell phone industry told us the emf's do not present a risk, sure.

Everyone has to do what is right for them. Sometimes I do just sit back and watch without saying much. Maybe that is what I should do with scalp tattooing just sit back and watch.

The person that had the stroke yesterday. If you believe it just happened for no good reason than you really don't know much. Do I think having your body rid it self of pigment through the lymph system is a good idea the answer would be no. But maybe all those millions of people know something that I don't.
 
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