What is the average amount of donor hair grafts available?

[Todd]

What is the average donor graft availability for a Norwood 5? I'd always thought it was in the region of 5000 grafts for a good candidate, less for others who have more thinning, but I'm seeing results all over social media of Norwood 5's getting 5000 plus grafts with full coverage.
Am I missing something?

 

[Risingforehead]

Think a lot is dependent on whether FUT or FUE is used.

 

[Todd]

I forgot to say Fue. No one seems to mention strip these days.

 

[HairDr Clinic]

Every patient is different, some have great donor area's and can go past the 5000 mark, others can have weak donor areas and depletion of the donor area is visible after a few thousand. Get your pics of your donor area across to some surgeons for an idea, better still meet some in person.

 

[Todd]

This is what I thought but the amount I see on social platforms saying they have these huge numbers with what appears to be excellent density unless fibers are sneaked in.

 

[Bigmac]

It varies from patient to patient. There is a lot of fake and wrong information all over social sites.

Take your time researching, ask away on here and look at the detailed results from clinics and patients.

 

[Prohairclinic]

It varies from patient to patient. There is a lot of fake and wrong information all over social sites.

Take your time researching, ask away on here and look at the detailed results from clinics and patients.

Indeed, sometimes I wonder where some of that information is coming from.

in my 15 years of experience with FUE:
Most people can harvest about 2500-3000 grafts and still get away with a buzz cut. The more grafts are taken out from the donor the more 'gaps' will start to show up.

Most people can harvest about 5000 FUE without seeing donor thinning with a 'normal' hair lenght of about 3-5 cm.

Again, these are averages.
Some people have such bad donor that skin is fully visible even before attemping an FUE (in which case it would be unwise to thin out more).
Some people can harvest 7000 or even more without seeing thinning of the donor at a normal hair length.

I get mails saying
"After chatting via Whatsapp and sharing 1-2 pictures with some representative .... I was quoted 4000 grafts' ???????????????????????


PEOPLE WAKE UP this is not going to a hair dresser to get a hair cut!

 

[Pete from Farjo]

It really does differ from person to person. Photos can only tell so much and are no substitute for an in-person consultation.

 

[Bigmac]

In a few more years we will see a lot more unhappy patients all looking for repair.

 

[Todd]

Do the spliced grafts that aren`t extracted grow back normally?

 

[Hair Restoration Europe]

What is the average donor graft availability for a Norwood 5? I'd always thought it was in the region of 5000 grafts for a good candidate, less for others who have more thinning, but I'm seeing results all over social media of Norwood 5's getting 5000 plus grafts with full coverage.
Am I missing something?

Hi Todd, as you can see from previous replies there is no definitive answer. We are all different and this will affect the graft numbers required and the graft numbers available. Expectations of the individual will play an important role for one thing. On a NW5 hair loss stage fixing the hairline is important to ensure a balanced hair coverage with a good density can be achieved. The lower the hairline the larger the area to cover is made. That said, too high and it will not look natural either or complement the facial structure, which is the point of a new hairline.

The hair characteristics play a big role, as does the technique used along with how fast you want to achieve total coverage on a NW5. For example, fine hair, straight hair, high colour contrast between hair and skin complexion are all going to require or hamper the look of hair fullness. As a result, it may require more grafts over an area to create the desired look. The technique used. FUT is very out of fashion at present, with large FUE sessions becoming more common. The donor harvesting techniques are really the main difference between FUE and FUT. Both have pros and cons. One large difference is with FUE once the hair is punched and extracted the donor hair density around the back and sides is lowered permanently. It´s been considered for a decade or longer that around 3000 FU can be safely removed from the average donor safely. This allows the extraction to be spread without over-harvesting any areas and leave a well-preserved donor. Capping the number also helps the healing process in both donor and recipient. It has also be considered that this can very likely allow for more hair to be safely removed over time because of the careful planning and execution of the extraction. Future FUE would then be smaller in numbers, largely because there is less hair left in the donor and ensuring it not left patchy or thin-looking an educated extraction pattern is important. This differs with FUT as this does not as such lower the hair density like FUE. But it does reduce the skin laxity with each procedure. An experienced Doctor could extract maybe 3-5000 with the correct incision and closure techniques and maintain a neat closure for the patient. Again, future FUT procedures would be smaller due to the changes in skin laxity, ideally removing from the same areas as previously to still leave only the one linear scar.

The first session regardless of technique ideally should be created to standalone. Not spread over the entire area as this only results in a thin diffused unnatural coverage. Fix the desired hairline and work back with the density required to appear natural until nearing the last hair placement when the density can be lowered to avoid a flat stop to hair growth. Future procedures could boost the numbers to give more hair coverage. This can mean some achieve total hair coverage and a good, natural-looking fullness from hairline to crown. Others may end with coverage but normally a lower hair density placed over the crown area.

 

[sl]

Very nice reply from Hair Restoration Europe, and very true that with the demise of Strip, sadly I have to say as it is an excellent technique, we are seeing the boundaries pushed on FUE and the damage that over-harvesting can cause. A Strip scar is local in a defined area, FUE is scattered, so there it the potential to do more harm to the donor over a larger area.

As said above an educated extracted pattern is employed, or should be, to avoid patchy areas, and also the size of the punch is key as if too large then can damage surrounding follicles also. So, there are aside from the patient's donor characteristics, also the skill of the doctor really comes into play and the tools used as to how much can be harvested and as said, hair colour, coarseness, curl, contrast to skin, length etc all play factors.

Nov 10, 2019
New #10

Do the spliced grafts that aren`t extracted grow back normally?

Well transected follicles , once pulled out, some can be still left and indeed grow, it may grow with less hair in it than before or same as before or not at all. It does depend on how it is transected and to what degree.

 

[Hair Restoration Europe]

Thanks sl. One aspect only touched on is to determine what is a graft. It could be tied to transected grafts mentioned in sl´s post. Splitting natural follicular units occasionally is required, more so with FUT than FUE and more to do with hairline reconstructions when a relatively large % of singles are required. But on an average candidate, there should be a good ratio of single to 2-4 hair natural follicular units. This is important because it adds to the distribution of the hair to create the required hair coverage and density. With the larger hair units needed in specific areas to block the light and creating the added look of fullness. If natural FU´s are split then the number of grafts increases but the actual hair count remains the same. The distribution and required hair density will not be sufficient and the overall result will suffer. You should be able to check before you make your decision and also request a breakdown of the hair to graft count after your procedure.

 

[JoeTillman]

So take everything that is said here, divide by 42, and that's your answer For the most part, this is all correct but I think it is worth mentioning that the donor zone for FUE is also considered to be different, on the same patient, from one clinic to the next depending on their experience and perception of how to spread out the distribution for a more natural donor appearance. I remember well the days when the the most comment donor question was whether or not the scar would stretch. Now, you have to wonder if the back of your scalp will look like it was hit by a blast of buckshot from a shotgun, permanently.

 

[Todd]

Thanks for all the informative responses.

There seem to be many variables involved and many different views on what it is.

 

[Todd]

I was meaning to ask in my original post whats the life span on body hair? I see many use beard and chest hair to bolster the numbers but an increasing amount is quoting back hair. Does this hair have the same protection from DHT? My leg hair is way thinner than 10 years ago which has made me think, do we lose a percentage of body hair as we age.

 

[Hair Restoration Europe]

Thanks for all the informative responses.

There seem to be many variables involved and many different views on what it is.

Hello Tod. There are variables, there can be legitimate differences in opinion and interpretation. One, of course, the Doctor´s personal attention to what they feel is safe. But, a real tangible is the natural hair characteristics that can alter the number of grafts that can safely be removed from an FUE donor. This is simply because some characteristics are better at masking the loss of hair in the donor compared to others. The same applies when creating the illusion of fullness over the recipient area from a relatively small amount of hair. The size of the donor area and the % that is removed is a simple calculation at the end of the day.

Some hair loss stages it is easier to predict the safe zone because it may be the only hair remaining. Lower NW stages and especially a younger age it is more of an educated guess. Ideally, the hair is removed over the widest area possible, taking into consideration the potential for future hair loss which can be assessed looking at the family history. Although this is only a guide and not necessarily an outcome. So, once the surface area has been decided upon it then comes down to simple maths what % of hair can be safely removed over one or multiple FUE sessions. It has long been documented and considered safe around 30-35% can be safely removed from the average donor over multiple procedures. Without over-harvesting the donor. With careful donor hair management and planning, this number can be improved upon over multiple procedures. Making it possible on a good candidate to treat advanced NW stages successfully. The more removed, say 50% or more aggressive the harvesting pattern especially in one procedure can often lead to long-term problems. Some not necessarily obvious directly after or until a future procedure is required.

I was meaning to ask in my original post whats the life span on body hair? I see many use beard and chest hair to bolster the numbers but an increasing amount is quoting back hair. Does this hair have the same protection from DHT? My leg hair is way thinner than 10 years ago which has made me think, do we lose a percentage of body hair as we age.

Body hair has been successfully used in many hair restoration cases. Care needs to be taken when deciding whether it is an option. The hair characteristics including hair growth cycle differ to that of scalp hair so it has to be used carefully. Chest and more commonly in the past few years beard hair are considered to be the stronger donor resources. You can compare to other areas like legs and the back. On average the hairs are finer in calibre and or less in numbers. This may be partly due to abrasion in these areas, rubbing of clothes reducing the quality or just natural characteristics, genetics and or the hair growth cycle. As men with male pattern baldness can have thick body and beard hair there is nothing to suggest that DHT causes the body hair to deteriorate in the same manner as it does with genetically induced MPB. But as there are no substantial studies to prove or disprove. The same can be said to body and beard hair characteristics changing over time to closely mimic that of the surrounding scalp hair when transplanted. There have been occasions this has seemed to be the case but could not be suggested to be a common aspect to using body hair or to be expected to occur.

 

[Todd]

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense. I`m hoping to meet someone who used body hair, this way I can see how it blends in. Keeping one's hair shorter would help with this I assume.

 

[Hair Restoration Europe]

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense. I`m hoping to meet someone who used body hair, this way I can see how it blends in. Keeping one's hair shorter would help with this I assume.

When comparing any hair transplant try to look at similar hair characteristics as yourself, otherwise, it´s hard to make a determination if it is suitable for you. Blending in can depend on the distribution of the body hair grafts, whether they have been placed alone or mixed with existing scalp hair. Shorter hair really depends on a few factors, again the distribution of the body hair grafts and your hair characteristics. As body hair takes longer to grow in length it may be out of necessity you keep a shorter hairstyle. But it is something you need to discuss with a specialist because it could be part of the planning of your hair restoration. Good luck

 

[Todd]

Thanks for the explanation. I guess body hair should not be used in the hairline but what about leg or arm hair?