bullitnut
4 awesome repairs with SMG
[flash=320,256]http://www.youtube.com/v/r2a8MVtN4QE?color2=FBE9EC&rel=0&showsearch=0&version=3[/flash]
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garageland
Valued member
What do you think of the video bullit?
janna
Moderator
I don't know Dr. Erdogan but it's nice to see that he's got a sense of humor.
yidd0
Member
Good video, not something you see from ht doctors every day.
Just my opinion of course, but this surgeon is probably one of, if not the best fue surgeon in the world at the moment.
Just my opinion of course, but this surgeon is probably one of, if not the best fue surgeon in the world at the moment.
JoeTillman
Valued member
If Dr. Erdogan was going for shock factor, he succeeded. My jaw actually dropped, for two reasons. The obvious, "what the Hell is he doing???" reason but also about the relevance. The conference is closed to the public so why such a massive production? I think ultimately this is a big middle finger to the ISHRS.
topccat29
29 year HT veteran
I would like to see this same group start an additional online forum. Could benefit prospective patients.
Patients should pay attention to this video and the conference as it could very well be a big middle finger as described. It would help them understand what goes on behind the scenes and possibly make a better decision maybe even not have a procedure which is always the safest road to take.
I believe Calos Puig was the President of the ISHRS in 2013...............interesting choice others should Google the name and look deep...............I'm all for the big middle finger because sometimes it is appropriate.
Patients should pay attention to this video and the conference as it could very well be a big middle finger as described. It would help them understand what goes on behind the scenes and possibly make a better decision maybe even not have a procedure which is always the safest road to take.
I believe Calos Puig was the President of the ISHRS in 2013...............interesting choice others should Google the name and look deep...............I'm all for the big middle finger because sometimes it is appropriate.
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JoeTillman
Valued member
Topcat,
Just to keep you informed, the big middle finger is because the ISHRS is trying to police how hair restoration surgery is performed, mainly in that they are trying to force members into adhering to standards that require the use of doctor extraction and incision site making alone.
In other words, the ISHRS is effectively trying to ban the use of technician extractions membership wide. There are a select few doctors that do not agree with this and are fighting FOR technician only extraction and incision site making thus they are effectively fighting FOR little to no doctor involvement during these phases of the surgery.
THAT is what is going on behind the scenes.
Just to keep you informed, the big middle finger is because the ISHRS is trying to police how hair restoration surgery is performed, mainly in that they are trying to force members into adhering to standards that require the use of doctor extraction and incision site making alone.
In other words, the ISHRS is effectively trying to ban the use of technician extractions membership wide. There are a select few doctors that do not agree with this and are fighting FOR technician only extraction and incision site making thus they are effectively fighting FOR little to no doctor involvement during these phases of the surgery.
THAT is what is going on behind the scenes.
scepticsausage
member
The technicians doing extractions was mentioned here........... http://www.hairlossexperiences.com/view_topic.php?id=5748&forum_id=8
I heard via the grapevine the major issue are the techs who are independent, they hire themselves out to plastic surgeons etc who have no HT experience therefor there is no quality control.The ISHRS are trying to put a stop to this by implemting a blanket ban on technicians performing the surgery.
I heard via the grapevine the major issue are the techs who are independent, they hire themselves out to plastic surgeons etc who have no HT experience therefor there is no quality control.The ISHRS are trying to put a stop to this by implemting a blanket ban on technicians performing the surgery.
topccat29
29 year HT veteran
Joe I can agree with that standard and thanks it s good to know. It s not what I would have expected by looking at the list of doctors who attended as the majority seem to perform their own extractions and recipient sites.
I thought that maybe a group of doctors organizing outside the system might be a threat. That was the message I got but maybe I simply misunderstood and it was wishful thinking on my part.
Recently my IP was blocked from even viewing a ht site that I was been banned from posting to 6 years ago as promoting fue at the time was considered dangerous (their exact words). I thought that was really odd ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦lol ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦but nothing surprises me. Maybe I might read something I not suppose to. I will have to work on getting access. Something to write about anyways and I always like to try and figure out what is really going on and of course I m not always going to be right.
Since we are on the subject of the HT organizations I have a question. I'm not sure if you can answer it if not no problem. I just read something today where I was given the impression that somewhere in the by laws of some organizations it is not allowed for one doctor to speak out against another. Would you know if this is true or not?
Having Puig serve recently as President seems to be an odd choice............any thoughts? No obligation to answer.
I thought that maybe a group of doctors organizing outside the system might be a threat. That was the message I got but maybe I simply misunderstood and it was wishful thinking on my part.
Recently my IP was blocked from even viewing a ht site that I was been banned from posting to 6 years ago as promoting fue at the time was considered dangerous (their exact words). I thought that was really odd ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦lol ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦but nothing surprises me. Maybe I might read something I not suppose to. I will have to work on getting access. Something to write about anyways and I always like to try and figure out what is really going on and of course I m not always going to be right.
Since we are on the subject of the HT organizations I have a question. I'm not sure if you can answer it if not no problem. I just read something today where I was given the impression that somewhere in the by laws of some organizations it is not allowed for one doctor to speak out against another. Would you know if this is true or not?
Having Puig serve recently as President seems to be an odd choice............any thoughts? No obligation to answer.
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JoeTillman
Valued member
topccat29 wrote:
I don't know where you get your information, Topcat, but of the 11 doctors listed I cannot name one that does all of his own extractions. Two I am not very familiar with so I cannot comment but the other 9 all use technicians either in part or entirely. I may be mistaken but I know for a fact that any doctor listed that does his own extractions entirely is in the minority, not the majority.
Article 7 of the ISHRS Code of Ethics states...
Holding a position in the ISHRS, even that of President, is not an indicator of skill and is not influenced by any online campaigns designed to expose ethically questionable conduct. Positions of office in the ISHRS are bestowed on those that have been contributors to the Society and have been active members. Past Presidents have included Dr. Mangubat and Dr. Leavitt among a couple dozen others. The ISHRS is not a policing organization per se but rather one whose stated mission is to push and encourage education and fellowship.
I don't know where you get your information, Topcat, but of the 11 doctors listed I cannot name one that does all of his own extractions. Two I am not very familiar with so I cannot comment but the other 9 all use technicians either in part or entirely. I may be mistaken but I know for a fact that any doctor listed that does his own extractions entirely is in the minority, not the majority.
Article 7 of the ISHRS Code of Ethics states...
This is perfectly reasonable and ethical. I'm not aware of anything so blatant as you interpreted from whatever you were reading.
Holding a position in the ISHRS, even that of President, is not an indicator of skill and is not influenced by any online campaigns designed to expose ethically questionable conduct. Positions of office in the ISHRS are bestowed on those that have been contributors to the Society and have been active members. Past Presidents have included Dr. Mangubat and Dr. Leavitt among a couple dozen others. The ISHRS is not a policing organization per se but rather one whose stated mission is to push and encourage education and fellowship.
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topccat29
29 year HT veteran
I was actually looking at the faculty and maybe that is different. From your description it sounds that way.
http://www.3rdmediterraneanfueworkshop.com/
Some of the names listed on the program for 2015 are
Cole, Devroye, Rahal, Lorenzo,Wong, Erdogan,Ferduni, True,Ginzburg, Harris, Lapuzula
I would say there have been techs here in the USA over the last 10 years who have been performing extractions and they were probably 10 times better than most of the doctors here and that is why they were performing the extractions. Not too many complained except for maybe a couple clinics for their own personal reasons and not so much on the quality of the work.
Having a tech perform the extractions is not necessarily a bad thing if in fact the tech is 10 times better than most doctors and a patient understands that a tech will be performing the extraction along with a complete history of the techs work. Most would probably opt for a doctor but an experienced tech is a better choice in my opinion than an inexperienced doctor. Personally I would choose a doctor unless no other choice was available.
Which would you choose a tech who is highly experienced with top notch results or an inexperienced doctor if those were your only choices?
It is also my opinion that most of the North American doctors were not squawking about the few techs that were performing extractions because it did not affect their business. Maybe now things have changed with so many speaking about Turkey perhaps North American clinics are taken a financial hit but once again only an observation on my part and right or wrong it s good to state it as even with it being corrected patients are able to gather more information. The inside baseball is more important in my opinion than the showcase pictures.
I like what I see coming out of Turkey but I also know it takes 5-10 years to see if there are any casualties providing they come forward. Reason being a clinic can make a ton of money with mediocre results and/or poor advice in 10 years but then it s kind of downhill from there. But sometimes that works for them. Make as much money as one can in a short period of time. Once again only an observation on my part but please correct me or provide additional information so we can all benefit.
Thanks for the code of ethics blurb that is what I was looking for and I agree it makes complete sense. What I read was from a disgruntled patient's website and he made it appear that this also applied to the truth which I think would hardly be the case.
http://www.3rdmediterraneanfueworkshop.com/
Some of the names listed on the program for 2015 are
Cole, Devroye, Rahal, Lorenzo,Wong, Erdogan,Ferduni, True,Ginzburg, Harris, Lapuzula
I would say there have been techs here in the USA over the last 10 years who have been performing extractions and they were probably 10 times better than most of the doctors here and that is why they were performing the extractions. Not too many complained except for maybe a couple clinics for their own personal reasons and not so much on the quality of the work.
Having a tech perform the extractions is not necessarily a bad thing if in fact the tech is 10 times better than most doctors and a patient understands that a tech will be performing the extraction along with a complete history of the techs work. Most would probably opt for a doctor but an experienced tech is a better choice in my opinion than an inexperienced doctor. Personally I would choose a doctor unless no other choice was available.
Which would you choose a tech who is highly experienced with top notch results or an inexperienced doctor if those were your only choices?
It is also my opinion that most of the North American doctors were not squawking about the few techs that were performing extractions because it did not affect their business. Maybe now things have changed with so many speaking about Turkey perhaps North American clinics are taken a financial hit but once again only an observation on my part and right or wrong it s good to state it as even with it being corrected patients are able to gather more information. The inside baseball is more important in my opinion than the showcase pictures.
I like what I see coming out of Turkey but I also know it takes 5-10 years to see if there are any casualties providing they come forward. Reason being a clinic can make a ton of money with mediocre results and/or poor advice in 10 years but then it s kind of downhill from there. But sometimes that works for them. Make as much money as one can in a short period of time. Once again only an observation on my part but please correct me or provide additional information so we can all benefit.
Thanks for the code of ethics blurb that is what I was looking for and I agree it makes complete sense. What I read was from a disgruntled patient's website and he made it appear that this also applied to the truth which I think would hardly be the case.
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topccat29
29 year HT veteran
To be absolutely clear I do not endorse having a technician perform a hair transplant. If someone does make that choice I think they are crazy but it s their head and maybe they don t understand the seriousness of this procedure. Can a tech learn the skill ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦..sure ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦.but it takes years and years of practice. Hours and hours day in and day out and one must have the natural skill.
I am also speaking strictly from experience that most know nothing about. There were two techs here in the US that seemed to have plenty of experience having worked together under a doctor who was also experienced. One in particular worked on his own in a medical setting with a doctor present after leaving that previous doctor. In fact a hair transplant forum owner who had been around the block chose this same technician for a procedure. Previously he had been both to California and Canada for procedures along with other clinics and he described his experience with the technician superior to both of those doctors.
About 8-9 years ago I scheduled a procedure with this tech. But after a few months of thought I cancelled and he was nice enough to return my deposit. It still was not good enough for me better to just keep waiting and learning.
I just wanted to clear that point up. If it is helpful to those researching ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦.great ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦
BTW one of the techs I mentioned was sued by his previous doctor ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦that is what is going on behind the scenes.
Joe we have different points of view I m sure they can both be helpful. But please correct me when I am wrong as that becomes a great learning tool for everyone including me.
I am also speaking strictly from experience that most know nothing about. There were two techs here in the US that seemed to have plenty of experience having worked together under a doctor who was also experienced. One in particular worked on his own in a medical setting with a doctor present after leaving that previous doctor. In fact a hair transplant forum owner who had been around the block chose this same technician for a procedure. Previously he had been both to California and Canada for procedures along with other clinics and he described his experience with the technician superior to both of those doctors.
About 8-9 years ago I scheduled a procedure with this tech. But after a few months of thought I cancelled and he was nice enough to return my deposit. It still was not good enough for me better to just keep waiting and learning.
I just wanted to clear that point up. If it is helpful to those researching ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦.great ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦
BTW one of the techs I mentioned was sued by his previous doctor ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦that is what is going on behind the scenes.
Joe we have different points of view I m sure they can both be helpful. But please correct me when I am wrong as that becomes a great learning tool for everyone including me.
