HGC (Hair Growth Centre) London, Maida Vale

[Jason B]

He's sorted it thanks ;-)

I've also had a look at your pics. Yes I can see why they have recommended two visits; I think the max they can do in the UK per visit is 3,000 Grafts.

they said maybe 3500 at a push

 

[Jason B]

they said maybe 3500 at a push

was hoping to find someone that will complete in one session so don't have to go through it twice any suggestions

 

[JesterRIP]

was hoping to find someone that will complete in one session so don't have to go through it twice any suggestions

I think you're looking at Turkey for that option.

As for which clinic - as others have said, it's a bit of a minefield. But this chap had quite a few grafts; he even details the clinic where he had it done:

 

[JonathanLondon]

Jonathon

To go one step forward you need to go 2 steps back.

It appears the density is too low around your hairline for you to get an adequate result. This is based on your post op photos And what your photos indicate now.

You need to wait another 6months to get your final result before you can consider getting the transplant repaired. (When i say repaired this is to get additional grafts to get the result you should have been provided with. Some clinics are doing poor design/low graft survival rate and referring to repairs as top ups. ).

Hopefully some more experienced posters on this forum will give you some advice.

One thing worth considering if the hairline remains sparse is to have a higher hairline (say 0.6-1cm) higher and have those grafts in that area moved back to form a new hairline. This needs to be considered if you have a low number of donor grafts available. This is only worse case and you would need to have an in person consultation with some top clinics for constructive advice on what to do next.

Cost is always a factor, there are some top Belgium clinics whom are reasonably priced and although the top UK clinics are around £4-5 a graft they have produced good documented results for many years.

It is certainly not game over your hairline will thicken in the next 4-6 months, it just means that at some stage you will need a 2nd HT to get a desirable result. Hair concealer and careful styling will disguise the hairline for now and give you the density to get a good look.

Good luck

(I have not had a HT, but have been fortunate to maintain my hair for over 20 years with Finasteride. So my opinion is based solely on my own research/knowledge gained through self education and not as a hair transplant patient)

Thank you for this reply that’s interesting. If anyone else can provide recommendations and possibly answer the questions about DHI results that would help as well.

 

[Jason B]

I think you're looking at Turkey for that option.

As for which clinic - as others have said, it's a bit of a minefield. But this chap had quite a few grafts; he even details the clinic where he had it done:

thanks

 

[Bigmac]

Jonathan, I’ve been following your updates and was hoping your result would turn out reasonable but even though you’re only at 6 months I don’t think it will improve enough past this point to be a satisfactory result that you’re happy with.
Coopman has provided you with a very good opinion which makes a lot of sense. Your hairline contains multi grafts right at the front, the density appears low. Removing the lower rows could be a better solution than adding more grafts to the area.
I may have missed it but what’s your age and over what timeframes did your hair loss begin?

I`m adding some of your images below which I’ll comment on.




Picture 1, before surgery. I can’t quite make out if your hair was thinning a long the left hand side going back towards the crown or this is just how your hair is styled with a parting. In picture 3 I can’t see that the hair is any thinner along your parting. If this is the case, why did they place grafts there as seen in picture 3?

Picture 3, hairline design. I would have kept your hairline where it was or lowered it by a few millimetres to enable some fine soft single hairs to create a natural look. This would have saved donor as well.

Picture 4, the density looks way less than it should be. If every scab is a graft with no grafts between them, then I don’t think you received 2000 grafts. I could be mistaken though but this would explain the lack of density to date and the graft density that have grown look similar to the picture 4.

Picture 5, you`re at 6 months. There is still time to see more growth but your hair loss looks slightly worse than your pre op picture 1. This could be due to shock loss or continued hair loss.

Picture 6, I don’t see enough improvement happening when comparing to the immediate post op picture 4.

This should have been a fairly straight forward procedure but now it looks as though you will need a further surgery to repair.

My earlier posts on this thread I tried to be encouraging as I don`t want to see patients stressing out but rather than give you false hope I feel it’s better that you face reality and use the next 6 months to research repair options for what I believe will be a sub par result.

 

[Bigmac]

Given my situation at 6 months, and earlier observations about density, i think it may be time to plan what i can do to improve the density:
I know that full growth is not expected until after 12 months, but at this stage it seems clear that this isn't going to fill as much as it should.

Can anyone please help me by answering the following questions?

• Can maximum density be achieved using a DHI to insert grafts, or is that not necessary?
• Is shedding of implanted hairs less likely with a DHI?
• Is recovery, or hair growth expected to be quicker when implanted with DHI ?
• When adding grafts to increase density, is recovery time expected to be as long as when adding hairline where there are no existing hairs, or is that not relevant?
• Unfortunately budget is an important consideration for me, and with that in mind, can anyone recommend a good place to go for this?
• I am open to travel to Turkey, but I am based in London.

What you have to take into account is your hair loss may still be progressing. Even with Finasteride, it might continue.

1. Density can be achieved with the DHI method, an implanter pen or forcep placing. The method is only as good as the person doing it.

2. No, your physiology will decide if grafts shed. It’s possible that certain holding solutions and treatments may enhance or encourage grafts not to shed.

3. No, it depends on the skill of the person and your physiology.

4. It should be similar but sometimes scar tissue in the area may hinder growth. Blood supply could be a factor as well.

5. I don’t recommend but maybe patients who’ve had surgery with a particular clinic will chip in.

6. Cosmedica and Dr Bicer both offer good value. Dr Bicer performs the surgery on one patient per day. Cosmedica have options to have surgery with Dr Acar or a tech lead team. The tech team will be cheaper but you’d need to ask to see results specifically by them and ask about their credentials.

 

[bullitnut]

Thanks for this, I will continue to post pictures to show progress - and fingers crossed, hopefully it will look reasonably acceptable without further work. I would be very reluctant to do that, so it would have to be awful. I've always liked wearing hats - so there's always that.

Viewing your 6 month update i think you are heading for another surgery…..you do not want to be stuck under a hat forever…Been there and done that, it is not good.

 

[HR1986]

what was your opinion of HGC. I have been looking at them myself

I'm currently approaching 10 months post FUE. Though, my results are okay, definite improvement, I would not recommend the HGC Maida Vale Clinic. If i could turn back time I would opt for Dr Vishal in HGC Romford or a better clinic all together.

You can follow my progress here.

Hair Growth Centre

My hair transplant at Hair Growth Centre 2nd picture is week 10 3rd week 17 4th around 10 days. Using Samsung s9 so the camera does not pick up the tiny new hairs. Isn't great but there is new growth. Just to give you a progress update. I'm currently 5 and half months post-op. Slight...

www.hairlossexperiences.com

 

[JonathanLondon]

What you have to take into account is your hair loss may still be progressing. Even with Finasteride, it might continue.

1. Density can be achieved with the DHI method, an implanter pen or forcep placing. The method is only as good as the person doing it.

2. No, your physiology will decide if grafts shed. It’s possible that certain holding solutions and treatments may enhance or encourage grafts not to shed.

3. No, it depends on the skill of the person and your physiology.

4. It should be similar but sometimes scar tissue in the area may hinder growth. Blood supply could be a factor as well.

5. I don’t recommend but maybe patients who’ve had surgery with a particular clinic will chip in.

6. Cosmedica and Dr Bicer both offer good value. Dr Bicer performs the surgery on one patient per day. Cosmedica have options to have surgery with Dr Acar or a tech lead team. The tech team will be cheaper but you’d need to ask to see results specifically by them and ask about their credentials.

Thank you very much for writing in detail to address my questions and situation. I will respond fully in due course. First I have a six month follow up to attend very soon. I’m not sure how to go about it, what to ask, what I expect from them, or whether it’s even worth going.

At what stage do you think is the soonest I can get a second FUE to improve this?
And is it a far more complex procedure because they will have to work on the low density I have, or is a ‘top up’ of density something standard to have done?

You said that you don’t recommend but then mention Dr Bicer and Cosmedica. Is that a recommendation?

 

[bullitnut]

Clinics usually want you to wait a full 12 months before proceeding with another surgery….but some will provide one at 10 months...Use the time you have now to contact clinics and find out what the general opinion is on a repair.

 

[Bigmac]

Thank you very much for writing in detail to address my questions and situation. I will respond fully in due course. First I have a six month follow up to attend very soon. I’m not sure how to go about it, what to ask, what I expect from them, or whether it’s even worth going.

At what stage do you think is the soonest I can get a second FUE to improve this?
And is it a far more complex procedure because they will have to work on the low density I have, or is a ‘top up’ of density something standard to have done?

You said that you don’t recommend but then mention Dr Bicer and Cosmedica. Is that a recommendation?

You should attend the follow up to get their assessment on your progress to date. It is usually 12 months if transplanting into the same area. The reason is, you could still have grafts that have not pushed through yet. Giving a 12 months time frame will virtually eliminate the possibility of placing a new graft on top of an existing transplanted graft. This is known as piggybacking in the industry. 12 months will also give your donor the required time to heal. You could have shocked grafts that will make your donor appear thinner.
Your repair will depend on what is deemed the best approach and best way to utilise your remaining donor. It will take a fair number of grafts to add density and refine your hairline as it is now. You may opt to have grafts removed to heighten it. This is something you need to discuss with the place you went and possibly any other clinics you consult with.
I don`t recommend as mentioned many times. I mentioned Cosmedica and Dr Bicer because you mentioned Turkey as a consideration and I feel they may be able to help you. Contacting them won`t do any harm, you can research them, check out their work and patient reviews.

I`ll look forward to your reply.

 

[JonathanLondon]

Thank you for your replies. I will report back with what the clinic advises during the appointment.

I will also start to look at different options for a possible second FUE. Is there an area on this website that has recommendations for people in a comparable situation to me?

Otherwise, can I ask any other readers of this if they have recommendations. As I have mentioned, if I'm going to do this, it will have to be at the more affordable end - and therefore I suppose that means in Turkey. I will appreciate any recommendations for the most competent, and most cost effective options out there. Thank you.

 

[Bigmac]

You can look in the repair section on here and see what can be achieved. There’s nothing to stop you contacting some clinics right now. They’ll say wait until 12 months but should be able to provide a rough assessment for you as I don’t think you’ll get enough new growth/density to improve on what you have.

Here is a repair that Cosmedica did. HT Repair

 

[JonathanLondon]

Jonathan, I’ve been following your updates and was hoping your result would turn out reasonable but even though you’re only at 6 months I don’t think it will improve enough past this point to be a satisfactory result that you’re happy with.
Coopman has provided you with a very good opinion which makes a lot of sense. Your hairline contains multi grafts right at the front, the density appears low. Removing the lower rows could be a better solution than adding more grafts to the area.
I may have missed it but what’s your age and over what timeframes did your hair loss begin?

I`m adding some of your images below which I’ll comment on.

View attachment 29548View attachment 29549View attachment 29550View attachment 29551View attachment 29553View attachment 29552


Picture 1, before surgery. I can’t quite make out if your hair was thinning a long the left hand side going back towards the crown or this is just how your hair is styled with a parting. In picture 3 I can’t see that the hair is any thinner along your parting. If this is the case, why did they place grafts there as seen in picture 3?

Picture 3, hairline design. I would have kept your hairline where it was or lowered it by a few millimetres to enable some fine soft single hairs to create a natural look. This would have saved donor as well.

Picture 4, the density looks way less than it should be. If every scab is a graft with no grafts between them, then I don’t think you received 2000 grafts. I could be mistaken though but this would explain the lack of density to date and the graft density that have grown look similar to the picture 4.

Picture 5, you`re at 6 months. There is still time to see more growth but your hair loss looks slightly worse than your pre op picture 1. This could be due to shock loss or continued hair loss.

Picture 6, I don’t see enough improvement happening when comparing to the immediate post op picture 4.

This should have been a fairly straight forward procedure but now it looks as though you will need a further surgery to repair.

My earlier posts on this thread I tried to be encouraging as I don`t want to see patients stressing out but rather than give you false hope I feel it’s better that you face reality and use the next 6 months to research repair options for what I believe will be a sub par result.

Bicmac
Having attended the follow up appointment, I will respond to your comments in this post, and then update you on how that went.
I am now 40, and my hairline started receding at around 18-20 years old.

Picture 1. My hair thinning was in an unusual pattern, where it was thin towards the crown, and then continued thinner down that left hand side. There is also a parting in that area. So the hair loss was a sort of No 6 shape. This is why HGC placed some grafts down that side, as well as at the top of the crown.

Picture 3. Noted. The Dr has told me that the hair line was lowered by one fingers breadth. Above that level were thinning hairs in the hairline, and the surgery added grafts in some of that area as well.

Picture 4. At this stage it seems obvious that density too low. More on that in the next post.

Picture 5. As far as I can tell, my hair loss is stabilised. I may be wrong and you may be able to judge better from the pictures. But I also find that the way my hair is brushed, and also the lighting can make a big difference. I take 0.6mg Finasteride daily, Minoxidil 5% twice per day, and Biotin supplements once per day. On top of a well rounded diet, no smoking, regular exercise, no weight issues, should I be doing anything else to minimise further hair loss?

Picture 6. I agree

 

[JonathanLondon]

This post is to summarise the 6 month post op follow up appointment.

I went in to the appointment with the intention of listening to everything the Dr has to say, and not to tell him what I thought, at least not until the end of the appointment.

When the Dr first saw the progress of my hair growth his instant reaction was to tell me that the growth looks poor, and he was surprised that it did not look better after 6.5 months.

He did not try to mask this in any way, or to be positive about it, either to make me feel better, or to dismiss any complaint he may have anticipated I would make.

He asked if had experienced any recent shedding of hairs (I had not). He also asked if any scabs had remained longer than expected (they had not). He asked about my diet, medication, supplements etc.

We reviewed a lot of the post op photographs, and also the subsequent photographs of which there are millions. He is adamant that the results I am seeing do not reflect the number of grafts the he implanted. He insists that around 2300 grafts were implanted. He seemed to genuinely believe this, and did not accept the notion that the density implanted was inadequate.

I know that you, and others on this group have expressed from early on that the density is low - but I am reporting exactly what the Dr said. I questioned him a number of times. He explained why the density in the pictures looks normal, and over packing grafts in a small area can cause poor growth. I took very detailed notes of exactly what he said, but suffice to say that he is confident in the number of grafts. However, he believes that the low density now is potentially a result of low graft survival.

He proposes to wait longer and has booked me into a further review at 9 months. This is to wait and see in case growth is slow, and continues as this can sometimes happen late on. Therefore, it is still possible that results will significantly improve.

However, if I am not happy with the results, he says that they hope to guarantee results, and would carry out a further session to focus just on the hairline and add the density.

Regarding the few double hair grafts in the hairline, this is unfortunate and they should not be there. The Dr says that it may leave a scar to remove those. There only seem to be a couple, and a fuller hairline may make those less noticeable.

At this stage, I am keeping all options open, including doing nothing in the hope that growth will still appear.

If HGC is willing to help, I would have to consider having a second procedure with them rather than forking out a load more money. However, I would hope that they would allow me to have this done under another surgeon, perhaps in the Romford branch, which from what I have seen, has achieved some very good results on others that have contributed on this forum.

I would like to know how many more grafts might be needed to make my hairline look acceptable.

 

[Bigmac]

This post is to summarise the 6 month post op follow up appointment.

Thanks for answering the points I asked about in my previous post.

I went in to the appointment with the intention of listening to everything the Dr has to say, and not to tell him what I thought, at least not until the end of the appointment.

When the Dr first saw the progress of my hair growth his instant reaction was to tell me that the growth looks poor, and he was surprised that it did not look better after 6.5 months.

He did not try to mask this in any way, or to be positive about it, either to make me feel better, or to dismiss any complaint he may have anticipated I would make.

He asked if had experienced any recent shedding of hairs (I had not). He also asked if any scabs had remained longer than expected (they had not). He asked about my diet, medication, supplements etc.

Thats good he never dismissed anything you had to say.

We reviewed a lot of the post op photographs, and also the subsequent photographs of which there are millions. He is adamant that the results I am seeing do not reflect the number of grafts the he implanted. He insists that around 2300 grafts were implanted. He seemed to genuinely believe this, and did not accept the notion that the density implanted was inadequate.

Could you ask him what density he implanted your grafts? It should be on the surgery records.

I know that you, and others on this group have expressed from early on that the density is low - but I am reporting exactly what the Dr said. I questioned him a number of times. He explained why the density in the pictures looks normal, and over packing grafts in a small area can cause poor growth. I took very detailed notes of exactly what he said, but suffice to say that he is confident in the number of grafts. However, he believes that the low density now is potentially a result of low graft survival.

Did he explain what density he thinks is overpacking? As above, what density has he placed?
Why have you got low graft survival? Does he believe it’s because of issues arising during surgery?

He proposes to wait longer and has booked me into a further review at 9 months. This is to wait and see in case growth is slow, and continues as this can sometimes happen late on. Therefore, it is still possible that results will significantly improve.

This is true. Growth can happen right up to 12 months but most usually know what the result will be like at 9 - 10 months. It’s a very small percentage who see enough growth after this to make a drastic improvement.
I do hope you get a lot more growth.

However, if I am not happy with the results, he says that they hope to guarantee results, and would carry out a further session to focus just on the hairline and add the density.

This is something you will need to give a lot of thought to.

Regarding the few double hair grafts in the hairline, this is unfortunate and they should not be there. The Dr says that it may leave a scar to remove those. There only seem to be a couple, and a fuller hairline may make those less noticeable.

It is unfortunate as they should not be there. Mistakes can happen but as suggested, they may not be that noticeable.

At this stage, I am keeping all options open, including doing nothing in the hope that growth will still appear.

All you can do now is wait the full 12 months and then decide.
While you wait it’s worth doing some research.

If HGC is willing to help, I would have to consider having a second procedure with them rather than forking out a load more money. However, I would hope that they would allow me to have this done under another surgeon, perhaps in the Romford branch, which from what I have seen, has achieved some very good results on others that have contributed on this forum.

They do employ a few freelance doctors who will vary in skill. If you decide you do want another surgery with them, I would vigorously research all their doctors.

I would like to know how many more grafts might be needed to make my hairline look acceptable.

You could ask the doctor how many grafts he thinks you’d need based on your assessment at 6.5 months if this were to be a worst case scenario.

I genuinely wish and hope you get further growth but I just don’t think it will be anywhere near enough to look natural and give you the density you were expecting.
If you don’t mind, could you measure your hairline, temple to temple in centimetres, then measure the beginning of your transplanted hairline to your native hair and add them please?

Did the clinic take pictures in the day of surgery? If so, could you request them and post?

 

[JonathanLondon]

Hi Bigmac.

The doctor didn’t state a density that would be over packing the grafts, but in an email previously he said the following at that time when I emailed him with some concerns raised on this thread.

“We aim to provide a density of between 40-60 grafts per cm2 however this can vary depending on the size of your individual grafts and how many hairs per graft you have. You had on average around 2.2 hairs per graft.

We transplanted approx 2300 grafts with focus given on your hairline.”

He didn’t give a reason for what might affect my graft survival nor did he mention any issues during surgery.

In the appointment he said that in a second surgery, he would aim to place 1000-1200 grafts in the front most area along the hairline, approx 4mm wide. This is to fill the front area to give the perception of full density when looking at me so you cannot see through the hair. And then place more behind but at a lower density than at the front.

In measuring from temple to temple, do you mean using a straight measure like a ruler in front of my head, or by taking a string and placing over my head and measuring the exact length to the temples?

yes the clinic did take pictures and I will request them.

 

[Bigmac]

Ask how many were placed in the crown, the side area and then the hairline.
It would be good if they send you your immediate post op pictures they have. This should provide a better understanding of how many grafts were placed in your hairline.
Measurement-wise, you could use a piece of string. Then measure from your existing hairline to the edge of the transplanted hairline to see how far they lowered it. They should be able to advise you of this too.

This Hairline education video by Dr Bisanga explains density.

 

[JonathanLondon]

Ask how many were placed in the crown, the side area and then the hairline.
It would be good if they send you your immediate post op pictures they have. This should provide a better understanding of how many grafts were placed in your hairline.
Measurement-wise, you could use a piece of string. Then measure from your existing hairline to the edge of the transplanted hairline to see how far they lowered it. They should be able to advise you of this too.

This Hairline education video by Dr Bisanga explains density.

I will ask about the graft placement, request the pictures and take those measurements and then post again.

By the way, the Dr also told me in the recent appointment that my hair is very fine. Therefore, the donor hairs are finer than other people's and this may also contribute to the lack of density appearance. However, I responded to this saying that he knew the texture and quality of the donor hair before carrying out the procedure, and therefore it should not be a surprise, or a reason to expect an unsatisfactory result. He said yes I know, but he wanted me to still acknowledge that my hair is fine. This is not something I had noticed ever before. I am aware that my hair colour is very dark, and I would have expected this to work in my favour.