Posters that blame the patients for going to bad clinics

[diamond8]

I am glad again that I went to Dr. Woods the inventor of the fue. What has your doctor invented? I am not impressed with the same old patients in your ads. You have yet to address your doctors negligence with the 4 frenchmen and the disfigured chest person years ago. This is no smear these are the facts. Too bad you can't accept this. I am laughing at the way you are defending a bad doctor. BTW it does not impress anybody to show the same old same old results year in and year out. Now show the patients who are unhappy as well as the same old same old. A smear is something that is done when no patients are unhappy. You have not addressed the victims you are for the person who did the victimizing. This is very laughable.

 

[Sofarsogood]

What I find laughable is your lack understanding of what the word "smear" means.

I could post anything about you diamond. Without facts, it's a smear.
For instance, I heard on the internet that you are a... fill in the blank.
Doesn't make it so.

In fact, it could be libelous:

A false and malicious publication printed for the purpose of defaming a living person.

Print slanderous statements against; "The newspaper was accused of libeling him."

Posting claims with no proof is shameless, dishonest and unethical. Dr. Umar has been posting extensively well documented results on YouTube for years now.

The one case from six years ago was never fully and openly discussed because the patient wouldn't allow the doctor to post.

The Frenchmen were exposed as frauds.
At least one bragged about his great results on video.

"Now show the patients who are unhappy as well as the same old same old." - diamond

This is your assignment as I have no evidence, photos, links or testimonials from unhappy patients.

If they do exist, I'm sure Dr. Umar did everything reasonable in his power to rectify the situation. Truth is, there isn't anything out there to comment on other than your childish attempt to smear an honest man and his practice while promoting your doctor.

Now let's see a BHT repair result from the doctor YOU promote all over the web that compares to the one above.

Then, I'll post another.

Cheers.

P.S. I'll go with the "innovator" over the "inventor." Would you you rather have the inventor of the automobile build you a car or a modern innovator? Show me some BHT repair results that compare to the one above and we can have an honest debate about "the inventor" vs. "the innovator:.

 

[diamond8]

Again Dr. Umar invented nothing. Dr Woods did. Umar copies, Woods invents. I am glad to see you have problems with topcatt, myself and many others. You need to grow up and take responsibility for Your docs actions. I am glad I saw that persons disfigured chest many years ago and it told me to stay away from your doc. I now see 4 others with problems with him. God only knows how many other vicitms are silenced. Where there is smoke there is fire. If all were well there would be no complaints. Some are happy with their clinics and others are not. I again thank God for seeing that person who Identified your doc and stayed away. I am grateful everyday for that. I am glad I went to Dr. Woods and so for me I feel very lucky. I feel for your doctors victims. Not for any paid shills on any sites.

 

[diamond8]

I again know what I saw. I do not remember names but the photos spoke of Horror. No smears just facts. What your assignment is to expose all of the clinics unhappy victims of your clinic. Again this game of blame the patient has been around for decades. Your Doc among many others has skeletons in his closet. There will always be happy and non happy clients. No doctors however are willing to accept blame. That is why this field has the rep it has. Take responsibility for your mistakes. Umar did say the he did not use that tool anymore on the guy whose chest was disfigured. He admitted blame. But what about that patient? Perhaps he is not allowed to speak out. Perhaps he has been paid off. You can't prove or disprove this. I know this field very well. If there is one complaint many more are being hidden. He may have some very happy patients as well as many unhappy ones. AT least he admitted to his mistake. I do not have the info on this as it was many years ago but it was a HUGE factor as to why I stayed clear of him. I am grateful for the post that the disfigured person made. Remember I did not make it the victim did and educated me. Thanks to that person wherever he is.

 

[Sofarsogood]

You are really going out on a limb here, Diamond.

No proof, no photos, no testimonials, no links, no quotes, no evidence at all.
I could say I saw or read anything.
Doesn't make it so.

You are shameless.
At the moment, you are just a faceless person posting from an undisclosed location spreading rumors, at best. A smear merchant at worst.

I hope your doc treats you well for this dirty work you do for him.

Again, shameless.

Here's an example of what Dr. Umar can do for patients who suffer from visible strip scars using beard hair:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeZXDiYHV5w

And another...

Before:

After:

Please show me one case from the doc you promote all over the web while smearing others that compares.

 

[diamond8]

Again I thank God for the internet for exposing your doctor. I again am glad that I went down under. Perhaps the internet will expose more doctors. As for your cases you need to go to the website as I do not promote nor sale for Dr. Woods. I am happy with what he has done for me. You still have yet to address the issues of your unhappy patients out there. You need to do this. I am glad to see you have problems with many posters because you are the problem. I expect to hear of more disasters from not only your clinic but others too. You can post 1000 photos but if one or two patients have been disfigured by your doctor then I suspect that there are many more hidden. I myself was used in a MHR commercial with supposedly great results. See the results in person that is the best way. Personally I don't trust you or your doc so any photos could be doctored up also. Proves nothing. My doctor is booked for months and does not need me to advertise for him. Obviously yours does. It gets funnier by the minute and these silly posts by you.

 

[diamond8]

My Photos and videos are on Dr. Woods site. They are over a year old and the results are vastly better now. You can check out my stuff there. Here is one photo of myself. I am the guy in the black tee shirt. More will come at a later date. I am also available to meet in person. I am not disclosing where I live but many people know I am on the West coast of the USA. I have nothing to hide. A purely honest person. The only other person whom I know like me is topcat. I see you attack him also. You need to grow up and take accountability for your doctor. Again for the LAST time NO SMEARS Just facts. If any person knows of the name of the guy with the disfigured chest done by Dr. Umar please speak up. Somehow the posts have disappeared but I know what I saw and am glad that person spoke up and Umar admitted he was wrong in using that tool. He did nothing to help this victim though. Speaks volumes. So Sofar I did not imagine this poster I saw it. If it had been done by any other doctor I would have spoken out against them too. There are unsatisfied Armani, Hasson & Wong, Bosley, MHR and Umar patients. These are the facts of life so you better get used to it. Am I smearing all of those clinics too? NO Just stating facts. This seems to be hard for you to accept. Facts are facts. So go on defending your doc. It is speaking volumes to defend the guilty. It is so laughable that my stomach hurts!

 

[Sofarsogood]

I've never gone down this road before but Mr. Diamond has forced my hand.

"There are unsatisfied Armani, Hasson & Wong, Bosley, MHR and Umar patients." - Diamond6

You conveniently left one doc (the one your promote) off your list.
"Purely honest person?" Hardly.

On another forum Diamond challenged me:
"Would you care to show me any botch jobs by Dr. Woods? " - diamond6

No doc is perfect, here's actual proof in the form of quotes from a patient of his doctor of choice who took the screename "ronjon".

These are what the actual "facts" are from a former patient from down under in his own words. The "fact" is, this is his own writings. Not blatherings, rumor and innuendo from someone posting from the "West coast of the USA".

"I spent well over 50,000 dollars down under on the work that was POOR and substandard to say the least and left me quite a bit poorer.

Its as bald now as it was then, despite at least 10,000+ dollars worth of procedures in that area alone. Again this area was un-touched by any doctor other then the clinic, and SEVERAL YEARS later. How many years do i have to wait, 20?

But nonetheless the results were bottom line: Poor and Unsatisfactory."

-ronjon

By Diamond's logic, Dr. Woods is a "total failure", a "bad doctor", "not to be trusted", "should be exposed", etc.
Now, do I feel that way about Dr. Woods? No.
I've never met him nor have I visited his clinic.
Am I going to go on a smear crusade against him? No.
Do I find his poolside music videos entertaining? Yes.

Shall I quote Dr. Feller's take on ronjon and Dr. Woods mental health?
It isn't pretty.

Again by Diamond's logic, how many more cases like ronjon's are out there being suppressed?
Are Dr. Woods' photos and videos being doctored by Steven Spielberg's team of special effects magicians?
Is the doctor really an alien from outer space?
Do pigs have wings?

This is a slippery slope as I have enough quotes and pictures from ronjon to continue this for a long, long time.

Shall we dance?

From that distance you look pretty good, Mr. Diamond.

Good for you.

 

[diamond8]

Why does your Doctor use a legal disclaimer to protect himself in court? Why do his videos state results will vary? Why does he not do the surgery from start to finish? Why does he use techs? Why does he not have a patients bill of rights? He is just another Doctor out there who invented nothing, results vary ( No guarantees for money back right?) & needs you for him. HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!

 

[Sofarsogood]

All reasonable questions:

1. All three HT docs I've been to and every doc in the USA (that I know of) uses disclaimers. This informs the patient of the risks, their rights, and protects the clinic from litigious patients who were made aware of the risks of any HT procedure in writing before proceeding.

2. Actually, Dr. Umar did do my first procedure from start to finish with excellent yield. A year later he had assembled and trained an excellent pair of licensed techs that helped sort and place the 1033 grafts. The doctor extracted all the grafts and supervised the placement. They were very professional and my yield was excellent. I am unaware of any clinic's besides Dr. Woods that doesn't use techs. I've had excellent experience with the techs who worked on me. I see this as a non-issue.

3. A patient's bill of rights is a great marketing tool. But it hardly would hold up in court. Perhaps Dr. Woods should only have the patient pay a year after the results grow out and the patient is happy? That would be something to brag about!

4. HT results WILL vary from patient to patient. Any doc (Including Dr. Woods) will agree with that statement. I can probably find a quote from Dr. Wood's on this of you like. Does Dr. Woods guarantee his results?

He didn't seem to refund ronjon any money. Perhaps I'm wrong.

Dr. Woods can be litigious.

"So, over most of 2004/2005, he showed no results, despite numerous requests from posters, and my attorney." - Dr. Woods

"I strongly believe that if I gave Ronjon the promotional work he wanted, none of this would be happening. " - Dr. Woods

Hmmmmmm. That sounds exactly like the situation with the French grifters and the topcat.

Shall I continue or shall we call a truce?

 

[diamond8]

No legal disclaimers. A surgeon who invented the fue. No techs. That is what I want. Again I am glad I saw what I saw. I am glad I went to Dr. Woods vs Umar or anyone else. All doctors have happy and unhappy clients. I see Umars have spoken out and I am glad I saw this. You can go about this debate forever but again there are unhappy clients with your clinic and I am glad Umar admitted he no longer uses that tool which disfigured that man. I am glad I saw this and did not go to him. If others want to go to him then all is well. To even mention Feller well that speaks volumes. He is a D.O. Not even a doctor. Jealously abounds with Dr. Woods since he is an inventor not a copier. I like not having a legal disclaimer. Once you sign that forget about litigation it protects the doctor. So it is not a marketing tool. Results will vary with any clinic. Very True. But with Dr. Woods he gets more out of 1000 grafts and many others need 5000. I also do not like techs. I like the doctor to do everything because it holds accountability to one person. With Techs who knows who to blame if you get poor growth. I am glad to know what I know about many clinics and again am very happy I chose Dr. Woods. Any future postings will be ignored. We know there are Unhappy clients from your clinic and you cant change that. I know of the disfigured person I saw and you cant change that. If you have a few happy patients well then fine. Others are not happy. Facts are facts. I am not going to engage in stupidity any longer. I made the right choice and my heart goes out to any person who is botched by any doctor. I know because I had it done to me. I also know the blame game and that doctors egos never let them blame themselves. All one has to do is google doctors mistakes and you will be amazed. Time to accept responsibility and move on. That is all I have to say.

 

[Atticus]

[No message]

 

[Atticus]

Atticus wrote:
4/17/11

Topcat - you never answered the questions me, and others asked you directly back on 4/17/11.

• It is clear you never had surgery with GHI. Did you not talk about your good experience with them in preparation for surgery?[/*]
• You are trying to blame the site for your inability to address any of the several points raised by the revelation of your emails? Why not simply address the points raised with your own emails? Do you refute the emails?[/*]
• Finally and crucially, the site changed the forum format in late 2007 to early January 2008. Archives can be searched as far back as 2007. However, As of December of 2008 you were persistently trying to bulldoze your way into Dr. Umar €™s clinic, as the emails clearly revealed. These are the facts.

[/*]


Conclusion. You are fast and loose with the truth, as you yourself proved by your own emails. Here is the bottom line. You got defensive/antagonistic with Dr.Umar, and he refused to work on you. You did not like, and you felt scorned. Thus, your attempts to smear an honest doc.



Here is an example of your usual tactics:



posted by topcat on 4/4/11.

€As far as the pro bono offer that I won is concerned. I was given 2 days of which I gave up one to 2 other repair patients of which one was a former Umar patient. €



Atticus - response


I guess he thinks he is quite brilliant. The way he worded the above quote is meant to infer that one of the patients given the free work was a "former Umar" patient. Thus leaving the impression that he was a former Umar patient that needed repair work due to Dr. Umar. Of course, he covers his obvious smearing technique in a way that he can pull his usual "Oh, that is not what I meant, I meant blah blah blah blah.

Once again, I can say some VERY extreme things about anybody on the Internet. Is it true just because it is written on the Internet? Of course not. Please remember that by attacking the good guys, you could be sending some poor guy to someone who will butcher him. Why not attack the butchers, those that scar and butcher people without some much as a loss of a nights sleep? Bear in mind that by trying to smear/defame any honest business man/Doctor, you are risking that person €™s reputation. By doing so, this can create a loss of clients, which can lead to lay offs of the Dr's. Office support staff, all of who have families to support. Is this doing the American thing - Hell no!





Questions asked by me on 4/16/11




1. You implied in your post that the Doc made you waste an airline ticket by canceling your appointment. A lie because you did not have an appointment when you bought the ticket. Rather, you bought the ticket to force Dr.Umar into doing your bidding. You lied about it by implying that you had a non- refundable ticket because you had an appointment.





2. Regarding the clinic policy to discounts for image use. The policy is to discount patients for giving the clinic rights to the patient images, which they as a clinic can use as they deem fit. I know this for fact because I allowed the clinic to use my images as they saw fit, and like many clinics, I was given a discount for agreeing to this. You wanted to be discounted so you could highlight your own case like your are doing currently with BHR. That policy is not anywhere on the website as you imply. Once again, I can attest to the fact since I allowed the clinic to use my images freely.



3.You deny that you implied that scarred5 was the clinic €™s atient who needed repair because of The Docs work. But it is evident that you could have phrased your statement differently if you meant no harm. Why did you not say scarred5 was a patient of Dr Woods or Jones all of whom worked on him? Why did he not mention that he was a satisfied patient of Dr Umar?



4. You did not have surgery with GHI, but you were planning to? And did you not make entries on your blog favorably discussing your plans for surgery with GHI? A bigger question is why did you delete all your previous entries if you have nothing to hide?





5 You did not deny that you gave an inappropriate and angry report to a simple request for a letter from your previous clinic. Instead of being angry and inappropriate, why did you not simply say you had no surgery with them? Why did you lash out at a doctor for such a simple request? Do you feel too arrogant to be asked for such a simple request to be made of your mighty self? You seem to think because you are a poster in the forums, the patient - doctor relationship does not hold in your case. That is the reason why you reacted so poorly to a simple request as a letter from your previous caregivers. That is why you are on a vendetta, for being refused surgery. How dare any clinic refuse the might Topcat surgery and a discount for highlighting your own case on the Internet! Many people have been turned down for surgery by many clinics, yet they don't go about the Internet making fools of themselves


Res Ipsa Loquitor (The thing speaks of itself)

 

[Sofarsogood]

Mr Diamond,

"I am glad I went to Dr. Woods." - Diamond6

I'm happy you are happy.
I never suggested you should have gone elsewhere.

"All doctors have happy and unhappy clients." - Diamond6

This is a reasonable statement. One of few from you on this subject. How obvious that you left Dr. Woods off your list in your past post. Exposed you are.

Please quote Dr. Umar regarding his techniques and tools. I've had grafts extracted by him by hand and by mechanical assistance. My donor areas are very clean and open for inspection.

I do not believe your statements about Dr. Umar because of your deceptive posts. Dr. Umar writes extensively in journals and on the forums. Best to use actual quotes since you are so loose with the "facts".

"To even mention Feller well that speaks volumes. He is a D.O. Not even a doctor." - Diamond6

I'm sure Dr. Feller would take issue with this. He posts results that are on par with Dr. Woods and then some, imo.

"I like not having a legal disclaimer. Once you sign that forget about litigation it protects the doctor. So it is not a marketing tool." - Diamond6

I stated that the "Patients Bill Of Rights" is a marketing tool not a disclaimer. You are posting before reading.

"Results will vary with any clinic. Very True." - - Diamond6
This is a reasonable statement that completely contradicts your very last post.
"Why do his videos state results will vary?" - Diamond6
Are there two of you?

Any honest doc would put this on his photos or videos because as you just stated, results DO vary.

"But with Dr. Woods he gets more out of 1000 grafts and many others need 5000." - Diamond6

This is your opinion. Not factual. Certainly not in ronjon's case.

"I also do not like techs. I like the doctor to do everything because it holds accountability to one person."

What about teamwork? Doctor exhaustion? FUE is physically demanding and very time consuming. I have no problem with qualified techs. Some have better hand dexterity than docs.

"Any future postings will be ignored." - Diamond6

Is that a promise?

And I had so many more quotes and pictures to post.

Truce then?
So be it.
:::C

 

[Atticus]

diamond8 wrote:

Why does your Doctor use a legal disclaimer to protect himself in court? Why do his videos state results will vary? Why does he not do the surgery from start to finish? Why does he use techs? Why does he not have a patients bill of rights? He is just another Doctor out there who invented nothing, results vary ( No guarantees for money back right?) & needs you for him. HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!

ALL doctors use legal disclaimers, Der George! All cosmetic/plastic surgeons state "results will vary". You make no sense Diamond. At your age, you should know these things.



Atticus

 

[zionaxel]

Shouldn ´t this conversation fuck off to another forum,got old..

 

[bullitnut]

Yup i agree....its not getting anywhere....just going round and round in circles;;D.

Way i see it...no one is going to change anyones point of views here.

So why not just chalk a line under it and get on with doing what this forum does best.....helping others in a friendly enviroment.

Everyone on this thread has respect from different people of the hairloss community on various forums...and no ones going to change anyones opinions here, so lets just move on guys please.

Warm wishes nutster

 

[topccat29]

I agree as it is becoming nonsensical to keep answering these same questions over and over. But at least many here if they are not familiar with some of the other forums can now see what goes on. Each clinic is going to be different in how they handle situations and it is best just to leave them be and move on.

I apologize to BM and the rest of the forum members for bringing this nonsense over here. The other forum had so many posters who seemed to have multiple screen names, there were so many deleted posts, and personal attacks on other posters that I thought a civil discussion could be had here, my mistake. It will not happen again.

 

[Sofarsogood]

I offer the olive branch that if I came across "uncivil", my apologies. I'm wiling to examine my posting style and tone down the sarcasm.

We should all be here to support and inform eachother in an open and honest fashion free from agendas and revenge tactics.

However, I will not stand by and watch as a good man is dragged through the mud. This goes for all my on-line friends here and the good docs who do their best to help people who suffered through the antiquated procedures of the last century.

Onward and upward.

P.S. I do however strongly believe that everyone should post who their "doc of choice" is in their signature for the sake of honestly and transparency. Posing as "neutral" when one clearly isn't is sneaky at best. Dishonest at worst. Do the right thing guys, and post who your doc is clearly in your signature so one doesn't have to use the search function to reveal where one's loyalties lay.

 

[Mountain]

Diamond8 - What is a disclaimer?